Entry Level gun….we all know someone

[Pat_Cameron]

Don't know if this is the right section or not.
Feel free to move it, if it is not.

I think all of us or most of us know somebody who is interested in shooting
a traditional gun of some type. They don't want to spend a couple grand to see
if they like it or not.

With a fairly decent economical barrel.
Economical but dependable lock.
Plain Jane stock.
Iron hardware, including butt plate.
Single trigger.

You get the idea.
Maybe a Southern Mountain Rifle
or maybe a half stock rifle of some kind.

Other than waiting and watching for a deal in the for sale section.
And I know there are some great deals there from time to tim.
What do you suggest to them or do you have a suggestion
that I can start with the get a neighbor into the game?


Pat

[B Staley]

Pat I would suggest the Lyman Great Plains rifle .

[J Hollis]

I started with the Lyman Great Plains rifle for that reason.  It was available and I didn't have to sink a lot of money in the purchase.  It became the "gate way drug" to the world of flintlocks.  Once I hunted with it I knew this was for me.  The only draw back is it heavy, front heavy.  I didn't realize it at the time.  I hope whatever is chosen works out well.

Jamey

[ken]

I started with  a CVA kit.and it grew from there. A Lyman or a Cva would be a good start. One can always remove more wood and shape them a bet better to make them there own . Both are good starter guns  ken

[Molly]

Good suggestions for sure BUT....

I would have wasted a lot of time and a bit of gold on the "entry level" concept.  My first contemporary was a breath taking thing of beauty and hit the check book for more than I wanted to spend.  Now, add in all the necessities for shooting and, well, you get the picture.  I guess if you really don't have the "addiction" you can go the entry level route but I'm very pleased with the way things worked out for me.  So far 9 great rifles from contemporary makers and one original from about 1810.  Several have cost more, several have cost less.  Of course I suppose how one plans to use the rifle also plays into the picture.  My shooting group has several serious hunters who tend to use what I'll call basic rifles but they also have several which are far from basic.  My approach, take the plunge!  You'll probably get there anyway, just as well start off fully committed!

Just my opinion and I know it's not for everyone.  I'm working with several people who have the itch but not yet made a purchase.  No one wants a basic rifle however.  BTW, cost is a factory for me too but I somehow manage to qualify the cost yet I have passed on many I wanted but just was not within my reach.

One post comment thought.  If you are capable and confident of being able to build one I would qualify the above.  Basic is probably best for a first build.  I wish I had that skill but I don't.

[Dennis Glazener]

This is just a suggestion based on what I have seen for sale at some of the longrifle shows I have attended. Many of the longrifle shows that normally have a majority of original longrifles often have a few contempoary rifles for sale. Many of these rifles, in my opinion, are under-priced. Probably taken in trade for an original or picked up at estate auctions when the main target were the originals in the estate sale.

Attending these shows also has the side benefit of seeing what original longrifles look like along with a host of accouterments.

If you live near Near Northern/Front Royal VA there is a good longrifle show there this Friday and Sat see http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=37615.0
Dennis

[Hungry Horse]

 More than once I have had someone that was interested in getting into muzzleloading, ask about buying an entry level gun. I always tell them the same thing. Tell all your friends, and acquaintances, and co-workers, you are looking for a starter gun. Nine chances out of ten someone has one in a closet, or lost interest before they got a kit built, that they will sell cheap, or give to you. I have acquired five this way, which I finished/fixed and use at the gun club I belong to. I have located several others for new shooters as well.

         Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

Pat- Taylor and I also concur with the GPRifle suggestion. They seem to be absolutely, the very best bang for the buck.

[Molly]

Check out the current "for sale" items.  There is a CVA Hawken offered for $250.  Maybe an issue or two but for $250, buy it and fix 'em.

[J Henry]

 I started with a C.V.A. kit,,had both 50 + 54 cal,barrel come with it. then the trail forked,and now I have 5 rifles and a pistol.  I started out inexpensive ,,that way if I didn't like it I was not out much money.Just a word to the wise,,do not buy junk,,that is the quickest way to lose interest,,troubles with junk will quickly sour you on B/P.
  I still do not own a custom build,,that way I can give the rifle away to some one starting out without it costing me much.Given ones to my S/I Law and Grandson,soon two more leaving to the other Grandsons,
  Latest purchases were H/A Under hammer and a G.P.R..Sweet,

[Pat_Cameron]

Pat- Taylor and I also concur with the GPRifle suggestion. They seem to be absolutely, the very best bang for the buck.

That is what I started out with. They are hard to beat for dollar value. Pretty decent quality and reliable.
I dragged a few bucks out of the woods with that first one. As mentioned in a previous comment, They are front heavy. It is definitely the quickest way to get started and a guy can stay there or sell it. Or if he want to move into something more custom it is easy to get all or most of your money back.

Thanks
Pat

[Molly]

or how about this "econo-lock"

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/487/1/AAP-131

[oldtravler61]

My first was a t.c. Hawken 50 cal. Basically bought because of Jeremiah Johnson .  Good gun not authentic. You can find them for $200 or less. Also traditions makes a reasonable gun. But Dennis is imho. Let them shoot a well made gun . An they will get bitten by the sport. The better the equipment the better the experience.

[stuart cee dub]

My cousin's son became interested this summer in BP shooting after shooting my'' try ''gun,a CVA mountain rifle with an RPL lock.So he asked me to look for a safe gun traditional side lock percussion gun not too long for his son. The budget was 400 dollars.
Looking about week on Gunbroker I found a T/c Hawken in .45 cal very reasonably priced (250).I was the only bidder.Like a lot of these guns they were shot a few times and ended up in the back of a closet.This one came with a clean bore .(and was not loaded either)

My cousin has money left over for a range rod,shot starter and his son has gun he can shoot mostly by himself at the club shoots.Typically we have the kids shoot off cross sticks. Dad has the caps.
T/c's are hardly traditional but there are lots of them out there,they are strurdy,and well built and seldom over 300 on gun broker.

I do think lyman is a better and more authentic looking piece.But do not overlook the thompson center on the used gun market.I do not recommend CVA's as I never liked the locks and had to replace mine ,with IMHO, an only  slightly better replacement lock.Everybody has a budget and very few of any of us started off with a long rifle.The more people we can bring to blackpowder shooting the better and young shooters especially.

[mmprwarner]

I would never discourage anybody from entry-level gun. They need to remember, though, that's precisely what it is. They should not be discouraged if their performance is some less than desired, with a little patience and a lot of elbow grease , most entry-level guns can be made to perform well. Track of the Wolf as previously mentioned is always a good resource. Also Deer Creek products   http://www.deercreekproducts.net/    has a lot of entry-level items also and don't forget, trade fairs will often offer an entry-level gun or two on some table.

[hudson]

Getting in late on this discussion but will add my experience. Started with an early CVA mountain rifle kit and haven't regretted it. Yes the inletting left a bit to be desired and needed some fill in places. Have replaced some lock parts in the several thousand plus shots. Took my first dear at about 90 yards, has won its share of matches. Highest velocity per grain of powder of any .50 caliber I have owned. Have had a Lyman and not wild about the sights and but plate but good rifle and won its share. With TC they are generally sound. 48 twist a bit fast for my liking. Allot of used rifles have bad bores maybe a plus on the TC, lower price and with a Green Mountain drop in barrel a plus. A good quality inletted stock and parts kit has worked out well for me.

[conquerordie]

First gun I ever shot was my father's .50, caliber T/C Renegade. He still has it. Heavy with a touch of 19th century feel. It's a good gun and if he doesn't end up being hooked, he can resell it.

[WadePatton]

I owned the knock-off import stuff once.  Then I owned a used T/C, but it was too late.  I'd already shot ONE flintlock longrifle, ONE time and knew that I'd never be satisfied with anything less.  So I went a lot of years without.

Sold my TC to buy the blank for my first proper LR.

My thoughts are this: Help them find something around 300 bucks with the full knowledge that a bbl or piece of wood for a fancy gun is about 300 bucks, each.

Yeah, get them to buy a capper, then a flinter, and at that point there's 600 or so "equity" to flip into a real deal gun with a good lock and bbl and decent wood and workmanship.  See a LOT of serviceable, real guns go by here for a grand or so.

Use the T/CVAersoli to get them into sidelocks and it shouldn't be too difficult from there, for those who like to brew their own.

[Horner75]

Check out the Pawn Shops and Gun Shows.  Most Pawn Shops will deal good with you, as there slow to sell to the modern in-line fans and Gun Show Dealers like to move them quick from my experience.

[grabenkater]

Check out the Pawn Shops and Gun Shows.  Most Pawn Shops will deal good with you, as there slow to sell to the modern in-line fans and Gun Show Dealers like to move them quick from my experience.

I picked up a CVA "Hawken" last winter for $75 at the local pawnshop. Some hillbilly put it together and never fired it.

[GANGGREEN]

I have a CVA flint rifle in practically new condition (I honestly don't think it's ever been fired) for sale on the classifieds here.  I had been having some trouble getting it to spark well previously, but a blacksmith friend looked at it and it's sparking like crazy now.  It would be a nice entry-level gun for someone.  There's a photo on the ad but I'd be happy to send more photos if there's anything specific that you'd like to see.

I also have an RMC Accusporter with L&R flintlock and Green Mountain barrel that I might consider selling for the right price because I have several projects on the bench that are going to cost me some dough. 

[One Eye]

The Lyman Trade Rifle is a great choice, and is a bit handier that the GPR.
One Eye

[Jamie]

The Lyman Trade Rifle is a great choice, and is a bit handier that the GPR.
One Eye

+1 on that from an entry level shooter.  The Trade Rifle is a single trigger, which is why I chose it.

Jamie

[hanshi]

My entry into BP was a H&A "Heritage" model underhammer in .45.  That was about 50 + years ago.

[C. Cash]

The T/C's I've owned and been around always seem to go boom when you pull the trigger.  Foreign makes I've owned and been around often seem to experience ignition trouble.  The Lyman's seem to be the exception and are well thought of.  That is my own meager experience so take it for what it's worth.