Cast off

[2longhunt]

In regard to Southern Mountain or Hog rifles, was it typical for them to have any amount of cast off? I'm getting ready to build one for myself.

Thanks.

Mark

[Dennis Glazener]

Some did but most of the ones I have seen didn't. If you want it use it. My Gillespie patterns have 1/4 cast off but the originals had none. My VA pattern has no cast (like the original).
Dennis

[Swampwalker]

In my opinion (ya I know) it's not necessary or needed on 19th century guns with relatively narrow buttplates.

[JTR]

I have three original rifles; one has cast off, one has cast on, and one is straight!
All have swamped barrels, but one is a reversed swamp,,,, being thicker in the middle than it is on either end! Go figure?

Given what I've seen on my original guns, I'd say if you're building the gun for yourself, build it the way that fits you the best.

John

[David Rase]

I'd say if you're building the gun for yourself, build it the way that fits you the best.

John

Excellent advice John!
David

[Mark Elliott]

From what I have seen, we modern makers take a much more formulaic approach to building than many, if not most, of the original makers.   That is particularly true of southern makers.    This statement does not apply to the very best original makers we usually choose to emulate.   The best builders were well trained by other well trained gunsmiths.  The bottom line is that I agree with JTR.   

[bama]

The question should be, is any cast off is needed to make the rifle fit you or your customer so that the sights line up automatically with the eye when the rifle is shouldered?

Only you the builder can answer that question.

There are number of things that can cause the need for cast off or cast on, toe in or toe out.

As it has been mentioned that the early wide butted rifles with heavy cheek pieces usually had cast off to help line up the front and rear sights with the eye because the thickness of the stock tended to push the sights away from eye alinement. This wide butt and cheek piece design was driven by the 1"+ size of the barrel breech.

Later in rifle design the bore size went down thus the breech size was reduced and there was no need for the wide butt and cheek rest design. So the need for cast off was reduced.

A person has a wide face would probably benifit from cast off even in a rifle of later design.

A right handed shooter that is left eye dominant and wanted to use the left eye for sighting would benifit from a large cast off.

A right handed shooter that has a right eye injury would also benifit.

I guess what I am trying to say if the sights do not line up naturally with your dominant eye then the rifle is not properly fitted.

An easy way to check this is to shoulder the rifle with your eyes closed. Get comfortable in your stance then open your eyes. If the sights are not lined up with your eye then the rifle does not fit you. If you half the push or pull or crunch your face down to see the sights, something is wrong. You as the builder are responsible for making the stock fit.

If when you do the above test the sights line up but the rifle is canted left or right then this can be resolved by the position of the toe of the stock.

Most of the time when I put cast off in a rifle I rotate the toe back as close back to the original center line of the rifle as posible. This helps in not causing rifle to cant to the left.

Remember that sight alignment is what's important and whatever it takes to achive that goal is what is needed in stock design.

[2longhunt]

Thanks gentlemen. I appreciate your answers.

Have a great day.

Mark

[Ky-Flinter]

Excellent information Jim.  Thanks!

-Ron