Author Topic: Kit crisis (Read 9906 times)

eddillon · « **on:** November 03, 2015, 03:21:16 AM »

Building an 1803 Harper's Ferry "kit" with a pre inlet stock. Barrel and tang all inlet, Ramrod hole rebored so the ram rod will now go all the way in. Located breech plug face in preparation for lock placement. So far so good. Crisis is the inlet for the lock. Front half fits perfectly. Will have to groove the breech plug face just a little for flash hole alignment. Big problem is the rear half of the lock inlet. Serious gap that doesn't even match the lock profile. Very disappointing after spending many, many hours on barrel, tang inlet and inletting and attaching butt plate and patchbox. If I had checked out the lock inlet before all of this work, I would have returned the stock for a replacement. Too late to cry over spilled milk. Any thoughts on how to proceed? Since it is a pre carve, no matching scraps to fill the gap.

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2015, 03:39:49 AM »

I would chisel out a triangular section (with straight legs) behind the tail of the lock and glue in a well fitting block that fills the gaps. You want to find a piece of wood that matches the grain and figure as well as possible. Then you can re-inlet the plate. I don't know any other way to fix it. You can camouflage the grain or figure differences in the finishing.

I am assuming you have a selection of scraps from other rifles, like I do. If not, I don't know what to suggest. I am sure some will suggest epoxy, but that would require some true artistry to cover.

Good luck.

ScottH · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2015, 03:41:10 AM »

I think at this point you are going to have to try and find some wood that is a close match in color and add some into the lock inlet. Hope it works out.

eddillon · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2015, 03:48:57 AM »

Quote from: ScottH on November 03, 2015, 03:41:10 AM

I think at this point you are going to have to try and find some wood that is a close match in color and add some into the lock inlet. Hope it works out.

Problem: No black walnut. Lots of maple and circassian walnut but no large pore American black walnut.

tallbear · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2015, 03:55:47 AM »

Ed I've got plenty of black walnut I'll send you. Email some pics so i can color match and I'll send you all you need!!!

mitch

Jason · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2015, 04:01:32 AM »

I had a similar problem with a tang so I tig welded overlapping beads of rod and then reshaped the tang to fit the existing inlet. Worked out perfectly and didn't have to glue any wood slivers or use any acraglass. When all was done I had to add about 3/32 of metal and draw file back to fill the inlet.

Acer Saccharum · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2015, 04:06:33 AM »

Can you forge out the tail of the lock a little? You will lose some of the engraving, but you could recut it.

David Rase · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2015, 04:27:37 AM »

Quote from: Acer Saccharum on November 03, 2015, 04:06:33 AM

Can you forge out the tail of the lock a little? You will lose some of the engraving, but you could recut it.

I concur with Tom's suggestion. I am a big fan of peening metal to fill small inletting gaps. You can move a lot of metal pretty quickly with a small cross peen hammer. Keep flipping the lock plate back and forth on the anvil to keep from forming grooves from the cross peening. I can't tell from the picture how large or small the gap is so peening might not be the answer. You could also run a bead of weld around the edge and refile.
David

mark esterly · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2015, 04:38:37 AM »

i would cut a small piece out of the heel that will be hidden by the butt plate and see if you can match with that

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #9 on:** November 03, 2015, 04:59:48 AM »

It looks more like European walnut rather than Black Walnut, but it might just be the picture above. You can shave off the entire lock inlet down to the depth of the plate, and glue a new flat piece over the whole lock area. Then inlet the plate properly. There will be a glue line around the ends of the plate in the cove area, but it will all but disappear with staining and finishing.

Keithbatt · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2015, 05:55:37 AM »

Ed,

I have some scrap black and English walnut. A few pieces of black to try. PM me.

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2015, 03:20:12 PM »

I would just carefully fill it with wood and then further hide it in the finishing process. Once I did a bit of restoration work, things like this became much less stressful. It's amazing what you can fix...

In fact, this with a little peening as was suggested might be good. Not sure if peening alone will end up closing things up.

Jim

WKevinD · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2015, 05:54:50 PM »

Without seeing the relationship to the rest of the rifle I'll take a flier...can the lock be moved back? Is the front of the lock tight to the wood? The inlet looks even to the lock except the tail, minor inlet job.

Curt Larsen · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2015, 06:11:41 PM »

I was wondering if this inlet was really for the later model lock developed after 1814. The lock you have is the 1803 model and appears to be the Davis lock. See if the Rifle Shoppe will give you a tracing of their 1814 lock plate. Maybe the best thing is do try a different lock. Expensive, but maybe the answer. Also, what is your barrel length? The later model 1803 had a longer barrel. The other option I guess is to get the proper stock and do it all over again.
Curt

TDW · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2015, 06:18:37 PM »

I have made a similar repair by using a Dremel tool with a circular saw bit to slice a thin wafer from under the buttplate. Wood matched well enough to hide the mating line with "fake grain".
Tom

JTR · « **Reply #15 on:** November 03, 2015, 07:16:03 PM »

You could fill the gap with wood, but if you're making the gun as a new one, matching the grain/color could be difficult. Twere it mine, I'd gas weld a bead along the tail of the lock wide enough to fill the gap, including lengthening the tit bit. Then file the weld to match the original lock shape, except now it's an extra 1/8" longer or so. Then re-inlet the tail of the lock into the mis-cut inlet. In the long run, it'll be easier to match the new metal to the original than it would be to mess with the wood.
John

Joe S. · « **Reply #16 on:** November 03, 2015, 10:32:40 PM »

I think disappointed is an understatement, that inlet is not even close and that's a shame having so much time invested already.I like Taylors fix if you can find a similar piece of wood.I would wonder how it will finish though when your done shaping the lock panel.It would be fine if the repair did not have the radius after its done.The glue is going to bleed thru a little where that wood gets thin at the base of the repair.You can try it on scrap piece to see how much glue will be drawn into the wood and how it takes stain.Maybe acouple of beads from the welder might be the best fix as JTR suggests might be you best fix.Peening is an option if you've done it before,if not you can make more of a mess of things IMHO.How ever you proceed I hope it goes well for you,good luck!

Pete G. · « **Reply #17 on:** November 03, 2015, 11:15:10 PM »

I don't like the idea of peening the lock plate. That lock was built as a copy of the Harpers Ferry lock, which was built to a pattern and deviation from that is going to appear as a glaring fault. I would add some wood at the rear of the mortise and re-inlet to fit the lock.

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #18 on:** November 03, 2015, 11:22:54 PM »

Interesting there are two schools of thought on this thread. There are the metal mashers and the wood splicers. Either method will probably work. I personally find it much easier to add wood than to add metal. I would make sure I had a vertical edge to add wood. Getting a total wood grain match on the small pieces needed isn't going to be that critical. I wouldn't increase the size of the inlet or make straight lines as they will be more apparent in the end. Don't try to bend wood to match the side of the inlet. Shape it with small scraper and put just a little draft on the top portion so the glue joint is minimized. Take your time to make sure it fits well. You won't get it better by gluing in a poor fit. Then take your time arranging a clamping method before gluing. Leave the new wood a little proud of the old so you can scrape it to final fit. I would use stainable wood glue so it takes color afterwards. A little darker area around the inlet will look pretty natural anyway. You can also use some artist oil paint if need be to give a hint of matching grain.

Don't be too disappointed as this is really a minor fix.

JCurtiss · « **Reply #19 on:** November 04, 2015, 02:27:23 AM »

Quote from: Jerry V Lape on November 03, 2015, 11:22:54 PM

Interesting there are two schools of thought on this thread. There are the metal mashers and the wood splicers.

Actually, there are three schools, the third being metal welders. This was posted by Jason, which coincidentally happens to be my name too.

Now I am no flintlock gun expert by any means, but welding a tiny bit of metal to the lock plate and then filing to final shape to fill the inlet in the stock seems to be the easiest and "purest" solution.

the other Jason

Mark Elliott · « **Reply #20 on:** November 04, 2015, 02:48:05 AM »

I think there is too much gap to fill by "stretching" the plate.

eddillon · « **Reply #21 on:** November 04, 2015, 02:51:57 AM »

Quote from: aka tallbear on November 03, 2015, 03:55:47 AM

Ed I've got plenty of black walnut I'll send you. Email some pics so i can color match and I'll send you all you need!!!

mitch

Mitch,
PM sent.

stuart cee dub · « **Reply #22 on:** November 05, 2015, 03:09:01 AM »

Sounds like the wood splicers won .

Taylor ,your idea was great .So ,like Felix the Cat ,I'm putting that idea into my bag of tricks.
I could have used that trick several projects ago, but I'm very pleased you shared it now .

Don Stith · « **Reply #23 on:** November 05, 2015, 04:13:22 AM »

Ed
It might help if we knew the maker of the lock. Even more helpful would be to know the length of the lock plate and the inlet. I have seen up to 0.100 difference in length from the same maker and way more difference than that in original plates
I have a Davis to compare it too and also have at least one of TRS plates. You are welcome to that plate if it would help you. It is undrilled ,so you could fit your internals to it.

eddillon · « **Reply #24 on:** November 05, 2015, 06:16:44 AM »

Quote from: Don Stith on November 05, 2015, 04:13:22 AM

Ed
It might help if we knew the maker of the lock. Even more helpful would be to know the length of the lock plate and the inlet. I have seen up to 0.100 difference in length from the same maker and way more difference than that in original plates
I have a Davis to compare it too and also have at least one of TRS plates. You are welcome to that plate if it would help you. It is undrilled ,so you could fit your internals to it.

Hi Don,
I believe that the lock is a Davis. kit is from TOTW

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Author Topic: Kit crisis (Read 9906 times)

eddillon

eddillon

Jason

JCurtiss

eddillon

eddillon