Belgian turner kirkland flintlock

[Linoww]

I've owned flints on and off for 10 years.I've never stuck with one long enough to learn it.usually someone talks me out of it for more than I think it's worth.so I got a cheap pre Dixie Kentucky. 45 and after 200 shots am really liking it.
What's the concensus on these.ok or piece of junk?

[Hungry Horse]

Marginal barrel, marginal lock, primitive trigger, heck if you can shoot one of these, you can shoot anything.

  Hungry Horse

[Daryl]

I believe you would be much better served with a Lyman GPR in flint or cap-lock.
I do not know of any entry-level commercial long rifles that I would own.

[Linoww]

So what's marginal about the specific parts? Barrel is nice and smoothe ,trigger just like other  simple trigger guns,lock sparks well..I'd like the specifics of your critique ?

[Hungry Horse]

 No offense intended. I'm just saying the sport has come a long way since the fifties and sixties. Besides this gun is somewhat of a collectable in its own right.
 The rifling on these guns was usually quite shallow, and the internals in the lock was often subject to exesive wear do to poor, or lack, of hardened surfaces.

    Hungry Horse

[Linoww]

I understand I just was curious what the specifics were. The rifling is is very nice but you're right it's quite shallow. Somebody hardened the frizzen  and so is sparks really nice. I kind of doubt any collectible nature of the gun but its not a bad beginners gun.
The reason I asked the question if I had a couple of Italian Flintlock in the past and the locks basically were junk.frizzens too soft and inernals wore out.

[axelp]

What matters most is that you are shooting it well and you like it. I think thats great.

Even if the consensus is that your gun is basically junk, you are getting what you want from it. Does what other people think matter that much? As long as it is safe and is not going to blow up and hurt anyone... Shallow rifling can be quite accurate--just have to find the right load--just like all the other barrels out there.

If you can ring the gong and get consistent tight groups on paper with this gun, then by all means keep it and shoot the heck out of it. Reduce your buddies to tears who have spent thousands of dollars on custom historically perfect longrifles that for whatever reason don't perform as well. LOL.

Just don't expect them to embrace or accept it as "historically correct" or "pretty" if it is not.

Best to ya

K

[Hungry Horse]

 I have been shooting muzzleloaders for forty years, and attended one of the largest rendezvous in the state for twenty two of those years, and can count all the Turner Kirkland  marked guns I have seen on one hand. I have never seen a flintlock version. Frankly I saw a percussion version in the for sale portion of this forum, and was quite surprised that they only wanted $400.00 for it. I do live on the West coast though where they are less prevalent.

    Hungry Horse

[axelp]

I live in central CA and I have seen a couple of the percussion versions of these repros. They are usually in pretty bad shape because the owner did not clean them correctly (or at all) or they just show their age from hard use and are dried out from hanging over a fireplace or hidden away in a musty closet. I have seen a few at peddlers fairs but they are mostly not in shootable condition.

K

[Linoww]

[axelp]

nice! Do you have an close ups of the lock area?

[Dennis Glazener]

The rifling on these guns was usually quite shallow, and the internals in the lock was often subject to exesive wear do to poor

My first muzzleloader was a 45 caliber Numrich Arms "Minuteman" percussion kit. It had very shallow rifling and a very slow twist but it was,  sill to this day, the most accurate muzzleloader I have ever owned or shot. It was far from having "correct" architecture for any known "school" and the percussion lock mainspring was weak, the alignment of the hammer/nipple was horrible but boy did it shoot.
Dennis
 

[Linoww]

nice! Do you have an close ups of the lock area?

Best close up I had on the phone.

[Linoww]

The rifling on these guns was usually quite shallow, and the internals in the lock was often subject to exesive wear do to poor

My first muzzleloader was a 45 caliber Numrich Arms "Minuteman" percussion kit. It had very shallow rifling and a very slow twist but it was,  sill to this day, the most accurate muzzleloader I have ever owned or shot. It was far from having "correct" architecture for any known "school" and the percussion lock mainspring was weak, the alignment of the hammer/nipple was horrible but boy did it shoot.
Dennis
 

My lyman great plains percussion is a .50  1-32 hunter and is one if my most accurate RB shooter.my buddy tells me I need a 1-66 barrel for it but I'm not going to do it.

[oldtravler61]

I had an old  Dixie Tennesse mountain rifle. 50 caliber  flintlock. At the time I bought it thought it was pretty neat. Shot very well. People I thought New what they we're doing. Told me sell it. Yeah be better off with a custom made gun. So I got rid of it. Got the fancy gun. Miss that ole Dixie. Much more than I miss ole fancy. So if yeah like it an it shoots for yeah. Keep it. An yeah didn't spend hundreds on something. Yeah might not like.

[Linoww]

One of the flintlocks I had was a Thompson Center 50 caliber. The things sparked great shot great but a friend talked me into changing the lock. I swap the lockout for an L&R the touch hole didn't  line up right the thing never sparks as well as the TC. I'm sure a lot of that had to do with my inexperience at the time but I shoulda left well enough alone and just shot the gun as is.

[Bill Ladd]

Linoww - If you ask me, it's a considerably better looking rifle than all the imported half stock "Hawken" monstrosities out there. If you're having fun with it, well, that's all that needs to be said.

[bones92]

I like it.  I seem to be acquiring Turner Kirkland and DGW muzzleloaders, and I'd love to have this one.

[Bob Roller]

I like it.  I seem to be acquiring Turner Kirkland and DGW muzzleloaders, and I'd love to have this one.

If the lock is working as it should and the barrel isn't badly worn from ramrod wear and cleaning
then that is a good hunting rifle. Putting a scratch on it will not detract from the value. Using my
love of cars as an analogy,I had a friend who passed away durning the Labor Day week end. In his
garage there was a Ford made in 1929 sittling beside his 1934 Duesenberg dual cowl phaeton with an
original supercharged engine. Both served their purpose just as the Turner Kirkland muzzle loader served
the purpose of an entry level muzzle loader. The super fine muzzle loaders of today are made by craftsmen
of uncommon talent and like the Duesenberg,they command a high price and don't recognize the distressed market.

Bob Roller

[Linoww]

Every gun I own is technically a hunting gun. It's not that I abuse them  but I don't go there any special pains just because a gun is pretty .  Which is why I now own utilitarian guns . About 15 years ago I was shooting a Winchester 52 C in small bore. When I mention to the guy next to me I bought it a week earlier in the original box and unfired he about cra***&!  down both legs. Apparently it was sacrilegious to do what I was doing with the Winchester.
I can truly appreciate some of these works of art that I see in the firearms industry but they don't do anything for me.

[newtire]

I live in central CA and I have seen a couple of the percussion versions of these repros. They are usually in pretty bad shape because the owner did not clean them correctly (or at all) or they just show their age from hard use and are dried out from hanging over a fireplace or hidden away in a musty closet. I have seen a few at peddlers fairs but they are mostly not in shootable condition.

K

I have a flintlock .40 cal. Turner Kirkland.  Nothing flimsy about it .  In fact, the long barrel makes it real muzzle heavy.  The lock has a picture of a beaver engraved into it.  The breechplug covered up part of the flash channel so had to drill a slight angle with a smaller diameter hole (1/16") to connect better to the barrel but aside from these couple of things, is a real good shooter.

[Banjoman]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Shoot it and enjoy it.  Be warned, this hobby is very addictive!

[Daryl]

Here's the caplock version.
It has stamped on the top flat: CANADIAN VOYAGEUR  and on the side flat: Made in Italy along with some other 'stuff'.
It resides in my lockup and belongs to a friend. The barrel cleaned up nicely, but it has a clunky/grindy 2stage-type trigger
then about a 10 pound crisp let off. I haven't removed the lock to see what's going on, nor do I intend to, just because.
The sights, both sights, are brass, however on the one pictured, I see the flinter has a steel rear sight.
.