Using an old file for a frizzen resole.

[BartSr]

Thanks to the old post by Hugh Toenjes (sp?) I was able to recover a beat up old ugly (you get the picture?) frizzen.  I had several old worn out H.F. files.  Breaking off a piece and grinding the flat side to fit the old frizzens face, they were sweated together with 3% silver content soft solder.  Hey, I'm an amateur on this forum.  It does spark great!  

Thanks for the forum search button, what a relief.



BartSr

Story here:
http://idezilla.blogspot.com/2015/11/frizzen-resole.html

Mods, if you would rather that I post the pictures here, holler please!

[BartSr]

After shooting the resole, it was expedient to draw back the resole piece to straw. Now sparks much more.

Paul

[44-henry]

If you are referring to Harbor Freight files than you might have a problem long term. Most of these import files from Asia are low carbon steel that has been casehardened. If that is what you used it will likely wear through the case in time, perhaps rather quickly depending on how much of the original case you removed during the process.

[rich pierce]

I'm curious about when period gunsmiths decided to re-sole versus clean up and re-case harden. I am guessing if the frizzen was extremely worn and thin that re-soling would be the best choice. Keeping in mind they used the forge all the time and case hardening was routine for them.

[Mark Elliott]

Rich,

I think it would depend on how worn the frizzen and if they had a piece of scrap steel laying about.   If It wasn't very worn,  I would re-caseharden myself.   I have done that on antique frizzens to get an old lock working again.    There is a limit to how much you can grind and re-case.   It is kinda like how much you can turn the rotors or drums on your car.    Eventually, you have to replace them.

[BartSr]

If you are referring to Harbor Freight files than you might have a problem long term. Most of these import files from Asia are low carbon steel that has been casehardened. If that is what you used it will likely wear through the case in time, perhaps rather quickly depending on how much of the original case you removed during the process.

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate them.  
First I ground about 1/8 inch from the face on one side of the file to match the frizzen curve (concave).  Sweated the pieces together.  Then ground the finished face about another 1/8 inch deep.  So a lot of the file faces are gone and the middle is left.

I'll be scrounging around for USA files to use.

Paul

[John Archer]

Paul,

If you 'broke' off a piece, the file you used had to be hardened through and through. You wouldn't be able to snap a piece off a file that was case hardened mild steel.

John.

[bgf]

Paul,

If you 'broke' off a piece, the file you used had to be hardened through and through. You wouldn't be able to snap a piece off a file that was case hardened mild steel.

John.

Absolutely right.  And it sounds like it was air hardening steel of some sort also, just like most every file.  I don't know when/where the case hardening rumour started, but I've never had a modern file made that way, regardless of origin.  Anyway, the case hardening would have been gone by the time he ground off the teeth!

[44-henry]

Wayne Goddard mentions files that are casehardened in some of his books. We used to make knives from files in our university lab, but quit some years back when we started finding that some of the files students were bringing in wouldn't harden after they had been ground/forged.

As for case hardened steel not breaking, I can show you pieces of mild steel that I carburized that will snap readily after hardening, just depends how deep the case is which can pretty much penetrate clear through the piece given enough time and high enough temperatures. Given how deep a case that can be created I have always wondered why soling a frizzen was really necessary.

Paul,

If you 'broke' off a piece, the file you used had to be hardened through and through. You wouldn't be able to snap a piece off a file that was case hardened mild steel.

John.

Absolutely right.  And it sounds like it was air hardening steel of some sort also, just like most every file.  I don't know when/where the case hardening rumour started, but I've never had a modern file made that way, regardless of origin.  Anyway, the case hardening would have been gone by the time he ground off the teeth!

[BartSr]

So, with all of this "collaborating" should I continue to use this kind of metal or get another piece (of what)?

Paul

[44-henry]

Good tool steel like 1075 or 1080 (both of which are easy to heat treat with simple methods) is so cheap it really doesn't make much sense to risk playing with steel of unknown properties.

[Squirrel pizza]

If re-facing the frizzen is the route you want to go a much easier material to use, that has surprisingly good results, is the metal banding material that comes from the lumber yard. It is obviously much easier to match to the shape of you frizzen, is easily brazed, and provides good spark for years.

[BOB HILL]

I've used a piece of old handsaw blade with good results. I bought one with a broken handle for near nothing at a flea market.  Have made numerous scrapers out of it also.       Bob

[bob in the woods]

As mentioned, the metal banding material is a lot easier to work with...don't have to do all that grinding.
The Pedersoli locks I've done had small sized frizzins, and the geometry was such that the banding is about the max . thickness that will fit without much grinding. 

[BartSr]

I've used a piece of old handsaw blade with good results. I bought one with a broken handle for near nothing at a flea market.  Have made numerous scrapers out of it also.       Bob

I have one that I was using for underhammer springs, thanks!

Paul

[BOB HILL]

Unless recently changed, I think files are W2 water hardening steel.