Helping a new flint shooter cure flinching

[smart dog]

Hi,
I am asking for some advice for helping a new flint shooter get over flinching on each shot.  I cut wooden flints for him to use for dry firing, which he does well without flinching.  I've had him fire his primed but unloaded gun to get used to the flash in the pan, which he seems to have done. I've advised him to focus on the sights and call his shots to make him follow through.  He does that well when dry firing or flashing pans, but when the gun is loaded and fired, he flinches badly. He seems to be always anticipating the shot instead of focusing on his sights. He shoots his percussion guns fairly well but cannot seem to adjust to flint shooting.  Any advice is appreciated.

dave

[erin]

Dave, I would suggest trying the loading barrel or loading the pan only cycles with the shooter not knowing when it was loaded.

marshall

[Daryl]

I do not think there is a EASY method or fix to help or teach someone to stop flinching. I have the same trouble with flinters, much less so with cap or modern guns, even the HEAVY kickers.

I have developed a kind of a delayed flinch with the modern and cap guns firing before I can yank them off the target. Not so with flinters - does not matter whose.   I have to deliberately concentrate NOT to flinch and much of the time, this works. I do not think there is a cure.  I've been trying to find one for over 4 decades, to no avail.  For every shot, I have make myself WATCH the sights on the target through the shot. I keep telling myself to SEE the ball or bullet hit the target.  Sometimes, it works.

[hanshi]

I don't and never did notice the pan flash; but I was lucky and probably an exception.  I agree that it does take concentration to stay focused on the front sight and not look at the lock out of the corner of the eye.   

[Long Ears]

I agree there certainly is no easy way to cure flinching with a flinter. I never see the flash for some reason but some people cannot see anything else no matter how hard they try. I also use the term of watching the ball hit the target. There is also the 1/5 second delay from the trigger break and when the ball exits the barrel. Good luck, Bob

[One Eye]

Dave, you may find that shooting reduced charges will help the flinch.
Also, shooting from sitting position, with you loading the gun and the shooter priming the pan and firing may help.
Best of luck,
One Eye

[Molly]

The problem is pure mental control and there are probably many ways to address it.  This is what I have been taught by a military vet who was an exhibition shooter and at almost 75 years old is deadly accurate with open sights at 100 plus yards.

Begin using a rest, seated.
Wear a good set of protective glasses. 
Take the sight picture.
Begin a mental exercise to remind yourself of the consequences of pulling the trigger.  As you do that repeat a simple short phrase.  The one suggested was "I like ice cream" and before the third repetition apply sufficient pull to make it fire.

The glasses are important.  When the pan ignites powder can fly into your eyes or worse, a sliver/spark of burning metal.  I have dots of burn marks on my plastic safety lenses.  It is unnerving to say the least.  Good safety glasses which cover the brow and sides provide confidence that you need to keep from flinching.

I don't use the "ice cream" thing but I do go through a process of mentally thinking through the shot and part of that is to remember what will happen when I pull the trigger.

I may not be a great shoot, but it not due to flinching.

[grabenkater]

I thought myself by firing the firelock with powder only in the pan.

[Ky-Flinter]

Dave, I would suggest trying the loading barrel or loading the pan only cycles with the shooter not knowing when it was loaded.

marshall

I agree, but would add "no load at all" to the mix. 

-Ron

[retired fella]

When I got back into shooting several years ago I did quite a bit of dry firing in my workshop.  I trained myself to try holding on target for a count of three after the trigger break.  Seems to work for me but I still got a way to go to get back to where I was 30 years ago.  You don't think it's my old man's eyes do you?
                               








/

[D. Bowman]

Sounds to me that the shooter in question might not have a flinch due to the flash in the pan. But may have what in the archery world is called target panic. It is a mental thing that reared its ugly head every now and then for me when shooting compettitvly. Call it fear of not hitting your mark or whatever. It causes the shooter to punch the release or pluck the string or in this case to yank the trigger.
I worked through target panic by standing very close to my backstop ( 5 to 10 feet) Drawing then setteling sights on target and closing my eyes and release while feeling the shot and follow through.
I would do this 10 times before starting a practice session.

[snapper]

take a .22 rifle with you to the range.  Shoot it for a while between flintlock shots.  The shooter will really notice the flinching with the .22 and this will allow him to mentally work on it.  Then rotate back and forth between the 2 rifles.

Fleener

[WadePatton]

Dave, I would suggest trying the loading barrel or loading the pan only cycles with the shooter not knowing when it was loaded.

marshall

This is exactly how I test for flinching when helping a shooter.  How you cure flinch can be handled numerous ways. Too many folks don't know they have one.

Dry firing is a favorite of mine.  Rimfire work helps too.  I think the worst shooters out there are those who missed that stepping stone, the one of 1000's of rimfire shots long and short.

[Tony N]

Dave, I would suggest trying the loading barrel or loading the pan only cycles with the shooter not knowing when it was loaded.

marshall

This is exactly how I test for flinching when helping a shooter.  How you cure flinch can be handled numerous ways. Too many folks don't know they have one.

Dry firing is a favorite of mine.  Rimfire work helps too.  I think the worst shooters out there are those who missed that stepping stone, the one of 1000's of rimfire shots long and short.

Agree 100%

Shoot. Stay focused and shoot

~Tony

[Elmo]

take a .22 rifle with you to the range.  Shoot it for a while between flintlock shots.  The shooter will really notice the flinching with the .22 and this will allow him to mentally work on it.  Then rotate back and forth between the 2 rifles.

Fleener

I would add to this that you load the rifle for him in a position that he cannot see. Sometimes just prime the pan, sometimes no prime or load, and sometimes load as normal. I have never tried to cure a flinch with a flint lock but have helped several to overcome a flinch with cartridge guns and percussion guns. It is all about concentration and this varies widely among shooters and if they don't have good concentration a cure is impossible. Concentration takes a good bit of time to develop. When I shot competitively I had developed mine to the point that I didn't hear the other guns firing. I would suggest that you find a way to improve his concentration.
  Elmo

[James Rogers]

Hi Dave,
Some good information amongst the posts.
I don't know how your student is practicing with his wooden flint and pan fires but I would suggest to always concentrate on focusing by using a target. I used to tape a penny to a wall and fire at the tyrant with a wooden flint thousands of times. He/she does not want to be concentrating on NOT flinching but focusing on hitting the target by a fluid, repetitive process. Trying to NOT think of zebras makes you focus on the negative and the focus goes to zebras automatically with that method.
The secret loading (or not) of the gun by another can sometimes be effective. It for certain can show an instructor and the student that a flinch or hunker exists. In some types of flinches it can also help cure. Sometimes it can be more of a hindrance than a help if the "instructor" seems to be getting more jollies or personal satisfaction in it than the student is receiving progress. Many people, even good shots hurt others more than help but I know your "person" (no pun intended) well enough that this is not an issue here. Just mentioning it as I have been witness to it, in classes for instructors of all places.
Since he has no issues with modern guns, I would have him sure up with full coverage goggles and use both plugs and muffs to see if the subconscious has issues there.

[Elmo]

Hi Dave,
Some good information amongst the posts.
I don't know how your student is practicing with his wooden flint and pan fires but I would suggest always concentrate on focusing by using a target. I used to tape a penny to a wall and fire at the tyrant with a wooden flint thousands of times. He/she does not want to be concentrating on NOT flinching but focusing on hitting the target by a fluid, repetitive process. Trying to NOT thing of zebras makes you focus on the negative and the focus goes to zebras automatically with that method.
The secret loading (or not) of the gun by another can sometimes be effective. It for certain can show an instructor and the student that a flinch or hunker exists. In some types of flinches it can also help cure. Sometimes it can be more of a hindrance than a help if the "instructor" seems to be getting more jollies or personal satisfaction in it than the student is receiving progress. Many people, even good shots hurt others more than help but I know your "person" (no pun intended) well enough that this is not an issue here. Just mentioning it as I have been witness to it in classes for instructors of all places.
Since he has no issues with modern guns, I would have him sure up with full coverage goggles and use both plugs and muffins to see if the subconscious has issues there.

Really good information here!
  Elmo

[little joe]

I cannot shoot with both eyes open, however I can squint my left  and shoot pretty good, If the left eye is fully  closed the natural thing is   for the right eye is to close when the hammer drops. My approach, and it helped me.

[Elmo]

I have always shot with my left eye shut except when I shoot left handed. I am a good shot even if I have to say so myself.
 Elmo

[smart dog]

Hi Everyone,
Thank you so much!!  You have given me a lot to chew on and try.  My friend is going to take a break and go hunting deer with his favorite percussion underhammer but after that, we will get back to work on flint shooting.  His flinch is not only blinking but actually lifting his head off the stock, yet he does not do that when just flashing the pan.  Heeding advice from you guys, I am going to have him shoot my old 22 cal Biathlon rifle and call his shots for a while.  Then I'll load very light charges and have him stand very close to the target.  I think I want him to shoot offhand for this.  I'll have him take aim but then close his eyes and fire.  After a few shots, I'll have him fire with eyes open (and glasses) and see where he is.  If he is over the worst of his flinch, we will begin increasing the charge.  I'll let folks know how we do.

dave 

[Jerry V Lape]

I don't think the flinch reaction is triggered the same in everyone.  While coaching a collegiate championship rifle team I learned that even while shooting nothing but .22 rimfire in12 pound target rifles that flinching was a common problem.  Most of these shooters had never fired a rifle with recoil in years!  I doubled up on hearing protection which cured many of them but others just couldn't get the hang of follow through and while they were decent shots were never going to join the elite ranks.  It is almost like you need to divide the brain into two concurrent activities where each is intense requiring full attention.  Regulating the trigger and following through on the sights.  One or the other has to become instinctive - preferably the trigger pull.  It seemed if my shooters had to spend too much focus on trigger squeeze then there was insufficient focus left for follow through.  For some the 3oz trigger cured it.  While others were so focused on not prematurely setting off the very light trigger they lost focus on the follow through and a one pound trigger helped.  I never did find a solution for everyone. 

I have a terrible flinch with one of my 12ga target shotguns - actually will  balk,  stepping off the station at times without pulling the trigger at all.  Yet with a light 20ga which has at least as much recoil there is no sign of the flinch.  Figure that one out.   

[bgf]

My flinch is worst when things go slow.  So, first order of business is to make every effort that will prevent slow fire or no spark, ie check flint, wipe pan and frizzen, clear touchhole, bank prime against barrel, etc., more of a routine that helps me feel in control.  Never hurts...  Next, I look for or at least anticipate pan flash and fireflower at muzzle, as signs that things are going well not as ugly surprises.  I know this runs counter to most, but I can't NOT think of something as James put it...

Also, I understand the desire to do offhand, but I noticed my offhand flinch is less or occasionally gone after shooting flint chunk rifle.  Removing the instability of offhand I think allows focus and a string of good shots delivered to the target inspires faith that the flintlock is capable of shooting just fine.  I believe at least for me that flinching is the result of lost confidence and frustration, so anything that minimizes those will help.

Take this as observations only, as I struggle with flinching constantly and only am making some progress one I started systematically eliminating factors and coming up with strategies that work, if only because they give me a routine to follow and some hope .

[One Eye]

The mantra of USMC instructors was "Front sight, press."
We were admonished to watch the front sight through the arc of recoil and while the bolt cycled on the M14.
Having a student focus on the front sight and not the target is key.
Semper Fi,
One Eye

[bgf]

I don't think the flinch reaction is triggered the same in everyone.  While coaching a collegiate championship rifle team I learned that even while shooting nothing but .22 rimfire in12 pound target rifles that flinching was a common problem.  Most of these shooters had never fired a rifle with recoil in years!  I doubled up on hearing protection which cured many of them but others just couldn't get the hang of follow through and while they were decent shots were never going to join the elite ranks.  It is almost like you need to divide the brain into two concurrent activities where each is intense requiring full attention.  Regulating the trigger and following through on the sights.  One or the other has to become instinctive - preferably the trigger pull.  It seemed if my shooters had to spend too much focus on trigger squeeze then there was insufficient focus left for follow through.  For some the 3oz trigger cured it.  While others were so focused on not prematurely setting off the very light trigger they lost focus on the follow through and a one pound trigger helped.  I never did find a solution for everyone. 

I have a terrible flinch with one of my 12ga target shotguns - actually will  balk,  stepping off the station at times without pulling the trigger at all.  Yet with a light 20ga which has at least as much recoil there is no sign of the flinch.  Figure that one out.   

I'm almost immune to recoil aversion, but heavy 12g loads with a badly fit stock had me slapping the trigger and flinching, with a target velocity air rifle.  It was so ridiculous, I was laughing out loud at myself!

[smylee grouch]

An inconsistent trigger can cause alot of problems. Not being able to get the thing to break when you want it to will drive you mad along with causing a flinch.