Helping a new flint shooter cure flinching

[oldtravler61]

The way I was taught to break a flinch. When I was starting to shoot flintlocks. My friend went an got a bunch of plastic poker chips. We agreed to put a dollar value on them . If I missed he kept a  dollar. After a couple sessions of losing. My flinch went away. When I could see the target break it worked. Shooting paper I didn't concentrate as much. Took my mind off the gun going off. An put my consentration on watching for the target to break. It's a thought

[Dan Fruth]

The method I used was to practice shooting with a "wooden" flint in the hammer. Shoot the gun like you would, aim and fire, and you will learn to follow through with the shot as there is no explosion, just the click of the frizzen falling forward. This method helped me ...Just my opinion....Dan

[tddeangelo]

I have to second the idea that it may be target panic and not a flinch to avoid the pan flash.

I went through the same deal, and when I recognized similarity to my archery target panic issues, I tried the same solution.

With the bow, I had to use back tension to stop me from slapping the trigger, so I tried the same idea with the flintlock. To do this, I used a clothespin for a wood flint and dry fire first. Then live fire.

I would mount the gun to my shoulder and have a dot of tape on the wall as a target. Develop sight picture, and make sure the gun is snugged up hard into my shoulder. Then with my finger on the trigger, I pulled with my trigger hand to pull the gun harder into my shoulder. This would create smooth pressure on the trigger (didn't purposefully move my trigger finger at all). Eventually, the cock dropped seemingly on its own.

I also developed "anchors" like shooting a bow- where my cheek should be, where the gun should be in my shoulder, etc. and then dry fire again and again and again to burn it in to my memory to make it routine

Then lots and lots of shooting.

My father did the "you don't know if I primed it or not" routine with me years ago and it made things worse for me. Made me much more "punchy" on the trigger.

When I first started working on this, offhand groups at 50 yards would go well over 10". Now most are inside 3-4" with an occasional outlier that reaches the group out to 5" or so. Usually they map directly to a form lapse on my part.

Just some other ideas......

[BartSr]

...
I would mount the gun to my shoulder and have a dot of tape on the wall as a target. Develop sight picture, and make sure the gun is snugged up hard into my shoulder. Then with my finger on the trigger, I pulled with my trigger hand to pull the gun harder into my shoulder. This would create smooth pressure on the trigger (didn't purposefully move my trigger finger at all). Eventually, the cock dropped seemingly on its own.
...

Now this I like.
BartSr

[David Price]

Smart Dog,

A lot of good information here for you to try.  I truly believe that everyone is different so you have your hands full if you try them all. 

When I was in my early teens I used to dry fire my 22 rifle every day as soon as I came home from school in my bedroom.  I had a regular small bore target taped to the wall and a pencil and paper at the fireing line.  Believe it or not when I dry fired each shot, I would mark the score down on the paper.  If I was not sure where the sights were pointing when I released the trigger,  I  would consider it a miss. Believe it or not I didn't cheat, good ar bad I marked down where the sights were pointing.

As a result,when I started shooting flintlock at age 19 I had no trouble calling the shots, good or bad.  When I am shooting  these days at age 78, weather for fun or shooting a match at Friendshiip,  I mentally call the shot before I look in the scope.  If the hole is not where I thought it should be,  I dry fire a couple of shots.

Good luck, I hope you figure out your friends problem.

David Price

[oldtravler61]

Remember three  things. The better the gun fits the person helps a great deal. Also the trigger has or should fall crisp an clean or however you want to say it. Also for several people that I taught in Hunter safety. If they had a target that moved / broke at the shot it improved there concentration. Just my thoughts.  Good luck

[Vomitus]

   I never flinch....or,...follow through,haha! 

[Steve-In]

A lot of good info.  Try having him shoot some large diameter steel plates at around 25 yards.  Let him relax and not worry about hitting the X.  Just bring the rifle up and pull the trigger when on target.
When I made my flintlock I finished it in January.  It was the only rifle I used at the shoots all summer.  I learned to trust it and how to make it work.  I really do not notice it being slow.  Hunting I have the attitude it is going to hang fire and just pick a spot and concentrate on it until the barrel comes back down from recoil.

[David Price]

Smart dog,
I was just about to reply to this subject when I realized that this was an old post.  I remember talking to you about this before.  I would have written  exactly what I posted  two years ago.

I teach shooting the flintlock rifle for the N.H. Fish and Game, THE OUTDOOR WOMAN'S PROGRAM.  We usually have twelve or fifteen women show up, about half of them never shot any rifle before.  I am always amazed how quick that they learn to shoot the flintlock.  We have a shooting match at the end of the day and they all have a great time.    Some of them start out with a noticable flinch, but after a few shots they seem to over come it. 

David Price

[Daryl]

Molly's point about glasses is vitally important for me. If I do not have glasses on when shooting a flinter, I cannot prevent the flinch no matter what. I NEED to have glasses on.

After all, there is always the possibility of flint frags coming back into that huge shiny eye-ball. You only get 2.  A have a friend who had to change to being left handed shooter,

due to losing sight in his right, dominant eye.  He remarked that is was easy changing dominance once there was no sight in the right one any more.

[Flint62Smoothie]

Sounds to me that the shooter in question might not have a flinch due to the flash in the pan. But may have what in the archery world is called target panic.

That’s exactly what I was thinking, where they be OVER-concentrating on the front sight. Now all their concentration should be on the front sight, but ...

Have them try this ... take a piece of white paper 1 to 1-1/2” wide, 6-8” log and wrap around the barrel/front sight & tape in place. Have them stand (ideally in their Natural Point of Aim [NPA] stance) & load 15-yds or closer away from a target & “point” and just shoot the rifle at the target. Have them try to shoot a clean shot without flinching.

This is a cure for those who can’t focus on front sights any longer, but it also helps one break the bad habit of target panic, which in this case is a ‘sighting’ issue, not a gun ‘firing’ issue. It is also a tip that the Russian competitive shooters (ala the bible by A.A. Yur’yev) practice frequently to improve the body’s natural muscle memory to produce a ‘good shot’ from their established NPA.

But of course that muscle memory can take thousands of shots. However, it works! FWIW I once trained a blind archer to get into their NPA consistently, then made a 3’ by 3’ plywood plate for them to stand in. We had marks on the floor to align the plate to the target, but the rest was up to him. Now UNsighted and w/no other means of aiming, this archer could consistently shoot 4” or better groups on our 20-yard indoor range. Never flinched or had target panic either ...

[sloe bear]

I talk to myself, Hold Hold Hold, a lite trigger Hold Hold Hold, it works .

[Nessmuck]

Shoot that Flintah...like it was your Daisy BB gun....

[Darkhorse]

This is how I teach someone to overcome the flintlock flinch. The bottom line is this, if one follows this to the letter they will overcome the flinch. If not, then one fails dismally. Not only will it cure the flinch but most find they become a better, more precise marksman. The key is to not rush it. My way is not a quick way but it produces the best results I've seen.


How to cure the flintlock flinch
Don’t rush the process. The point is to drill this into your subconscious and create muscle memory that will last, and improve over time.
Replace flint with a whittled down piece of wood. You can dryfire inside your house at this step if you wish. Cock your rifle and aim at a defined point. Try to drive the front sight into that point. Now while concentrating on the front sight pull the trigger. Is the front sight still on your mark or close? Or is it a few inches away? If it has wandered off target this is because of the flinch, and you are trying to watch the hammer and flint strike the frizzen.
Now do it again and concentrate harder on ignoring the hammer fall and more on your front sight. Keep trying to drive that front sight into the target.
After a day or two you will start to notice you’re paying more attention to that front sight and less to that distracting flintlock. What ever you do don’t rush to the next step because you’re not ready. You will just relapse. Continue to practice this step for one to two weeks. 2 weeks are much better as it takes time to teach  your mind and develop muscle memory. Just keep doing this over and over until that front sight remains stuck on the target every time you pull the trigger.
When you are satisfied that you have mastered this step put the real flint back in the lock and plug the touchhole with a toothpick, you can push it on through into the barrel later. Now go outside and pick you out a new target. Prime the pan. We are now introducing a distraction to the process. Cock your rifle, aim hard at the target and pull the trigger. Don’t be surprised if you flinch. Just keep doing it over and over until you ignore the flash and that front sight remains pasted on the target. If you continue to flinch go back to step one and repeat at least one week because you didn’t do it long enough the first time.
Again I want to stress that you not rush the process. Continue a minimum of 7 days and 2 weeks is not too long.
 You should not be flinching at all before moving to the next step which is a rifle loaded with a light charge. If you practiced step one and two long enough then you won’t flinch with a light charge. If you find yourself flinching just go back to step one and start over.
The keys to success are learning to concentrate on that front sight and ignoring the flash in the pan. The longer you practice both steps the greater the success at conquering the flinch. If you keep at it you will begin to notice that the front sight is really pasted on the target, and then the rifle goes off and when the smoke clears that front sight is still pasted on the target.

[Flint62Smoothie]

His flinch is not only blinking but actually lifting his head off the stock, yet he does not do that when just flashing the pan.

That’s called “peeking” ... he’s anticipating the shot and is ‘looking’ to see where the shot landed. Remind him that through the smoke ... he never, ever will. As stated, the best he can do is to make a clean shot while keeping all of his focus on the front sight, front sight, front sight ... all the way through the shot and the follow-through.

I see this a lot when I’ll be a scorer at the MZL primitive/snowshoe biathlons where shooters I saw tearing up the target (small groups) on the practice range ... then ‘peek’ and life their head whilst shooting at the gongs for record. That always causes a miss!

[Nessmuck]

I missed a 6 pointer Deer.....3 years ago..From Peeking, I lifted my head up to see the shot....never again. Keep your head down !

[Tim Ault]

I'll throw out something different that worked for me when my dad first started letting me shoot his flintlock . I flinched horrible how he broke me of this was have bigger sized target at close distance say 25 yds , stand with rifle at the ready loaded and primed just like out in woods hunting  on command cock back the hammer shoulder and shoot aka snap shooting . My goal was to hit the 12"  target at that close range as fast as I could say under 5 seconds . It was so fast a drill I actually forgot about the flinching problem  my mind just focused on sights on target and then squeeze did that a few weekends  and I moved the target back to 50 and made it smaller then slowed down my time limit  . Worked for me .

Tim

[oldtravler61]

  Here's what worked for me. Shot a flint crappy for a few years. Always towards the bottom of any competision. Flinched a lot. Same as other's give me a modern gun no problem.
  Then my friend took a bunch of poker chips. Stuck them on a board. We got the flint guns out. He said everyone you break I owe you a dollar. Everyone you miss you owe me two. Worked like a champ...!  Teached my subconscious to consentrate. Plus the fact I'm cheap....! Mind over matter!
Oldtravler

[heelerau]

I do not think there is a EASY method or fix to help or teach someone to stop flinching. I have the same trouble with flinters, much less so with cap or modern guns, even the HEAVY kickers.

I have developed a kind of a delayed flinch with the modern and cap guns firing before I can yank them off the target. Not so with flinters - does not matter whose.   I have to deliberately concentrate NOT to flinch and much of the time, this works. I do not think there is a cure.  I've been trying to find one for over 4 decades, to no avail.  For every shot, I have make myself WATCH the sights on the target through the shot. I keep telling myself to SEE the ball or bullet hit the target.  Sometimes, it works.

    I did have a flinch when I was a kid, due to the rifled musket I was using kicking me much harder than the .22 rifles I normally used. I have to do the same as you have said above when shooting my flintlock rifles, which by the way has much improved my shooting with cap locks and other rifles. I to am trying to help a mate who is ver new to flintlocks and he is having a devil of a time with flinching, and flashing in the pan. I did convince him to put more priming in, that has sorted the flash in the pan business. I may have to try loading his rifle or not to confuse him and see if that helps with the anticipation.

[Sharpsman]

Ball and Dummy!

Fully load but don't let him know it's live!

By the time he gets finished making a monkey of himself by sticking the muzzle in the dirt....he'll finally convince himself to quit flinching!

[walks with gun]

    Easy steps,   Shoot very light(bunny @$#%) loads,  so there is no recoil.   Use good ear plugs not muffs that can come into contact with the stock and make noise on their own.    DO NOT shoot paper targets,  use gongs, plastic bottles full of water,  fruit or other reactionary targets that are fun to shoot and take the mind off the flinch.   Spring is here now so I suggest a few woods walks to hunt chipmunks or roam the hay fields looking for stripped gophers.   Paper targets are terrible to shoot at if one has the flinch, targets have to be fun and add a little friendly competition too it.      Not very scientific but really does seem to help many.

[sonny]

How about making a cover for the lock, blocking the lock an pan completely. He could only aim an feel the gun bump his shoulder when the shot breaks. If he flinches with the blocked lock , when the pan ignites, then the recoil is his fear not the flash. Shooting with the cardboard cover in place for a group of shots, would move his concentration away from everything, except hitting the target.......................sonny

[Bob Roller]

Back in 2008 I finished a 58 caliber flintlock rifle that was someone's
long abandoned project.I made my own version of a Ketland lock and
my version of a internally tapered vent and used Stifter's white cut
gates and got ignition so fast I had no time to flinch.I have never been
one to flinch with anything including African hunting rifles.A fast lock
with a good vent will give caplock ignition and that's a fact.
Bob Roller

[Marcruger]

In my mind, a flinch is occurring because a person is thinking about the recoil more than hitting the target. 

When breaking in new shooters, we shoot at rubber targets, clay birds, etc instead of paper.  If they are thinking about "whacking" the target, they generally aren't thinking about the recoil.

All of that said, I generally don't shoot guns that pound or hurt me (love that slow pushing Black Powder).  I NEVER hand another shooter a gun that will hurt them.  I think those videos of folks handing a small girl a 10 gauge to shoot are detestable, and not humorous at all.  They've most likely lost a potential shooter forever. 

I also coach new shooters that the gun they are shooting won't hurt them, though it may startle them at first.  I note that in reality, it will jump but won't actually "kick" them.  I also make dead sure that they have ear plugs in, and muff too if possible.  I find a lot of flinching is due to noise.  Also, glasses are a must.  If they want to shoot something that actually does recoil, I add a recoil pad to their shoulder.  Once they are not scared of a gun, then I re-focus them to the target.  Comments like, "You're going to kill that clay bird".  Or  "Knock that rubber ball over the berm".  That sort of thing. 

With flinters I find that a firm hold with both hands (for me) keeps the barrel pointed the same way until the ball is clear of the muzzle.  I am constantly baffled by shooters who can shoot a longrifle with the fore end balanced on finger tips.  I can't do that!  I shoot from the bench the same way, tight hold with both hands, no part of the gun touching anything but me.

There is nothing better than the look on a shooter's face when the connect with a target.  Especially the first time.  :-)   

I hope some of this helps someone.  God Bless,  Marc

[wmrike]

If you could can a cure, you would make millions

1) The slower ignition of a flint gun, small as it may be, is enough time to allow a flinch to make itself apparent in a big way.
2) Follow through with a flinter is paramount.  It may not be possible for a person to differentiate the two.
3) I shoot smallbore.  Years ago a Distinguished high-power shooter came to one of our matches.  At the end of the day we asked how he liked it.  After mulling the question for a moment, he said he realized that high-power was just a controlled flinch.  Could the caliber of the flint gun be an issue?