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Author Topic: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked  (Read 17077 times)

kaintuck

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wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« on: November 14, 2015, 04:55:55 AM »
Fellas,I need some help, I have been asked to appraise/look at a wall gun. I don't know much about these, only see a couple in my whole life!
What is there r
To look for? I'll take some photos if allowed and post.....
I'm thinking bore size...condition,,,overall condition, lock type, etc etc......
Marc n tomtom
 ;D
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:38:19 PM by kaintuck »
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2015, 05:01:56 AM »
1" bore or more, 30 or more lbs. very military. You may also be looking at a punt gun, so keep that in mind, very long, 1" or better bore, pretty crude, probably cap lock. I'd bet on a punt gun.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 05:03:18 AM by Mike Brooks »
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kaintuck

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2015, 10:33:01 PM »
Thanks mike, at this point, all I know is it is 6ft, about 1" bore, half stocked.
I saw a excellent wall gun in a kentucky pasnsbop....it had a removable chamber, and nice wide rifling but crude sights.
He nay call me tonight to goook at it....
Marc n tomtom
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Offline jdm

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2015, 10:41:35 PM »
I'm with Mike on this one. More than likely a punt gun. Everybody thinks there neat  but you have to find the guy that's thinks it's neat enough to buy.
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JIM

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2015, 11:39:05 PM »
Quote
1" bore or more, 30 or more lbs. very military.
I was at the DuPage Co. gun show in IL back in the late 90's.  Usually only 2 or 3 guys that had ML stuff.  However, one guy had only one gun on his table.  It was a British wall gun, flintlock, big bore.  It was like a Brown Bess on steroids.  He was asking $8900 for it back then.  It was in excellent condition, no breaks or missing wood or rust.
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2015, 01:16:13 AM »
Quote from: kaintuck on November 14, 2015, 10:33:01 PM
Thanks mike, at this point, all I know is it is 6ft, about 1" bore, half stocked.
I saw a excellent wall gun in a kentucky pasnsbop....it had a removable chamber, and nice wide rifling but crude sights.
He nay call me tonight to goook at it....
Marc n tomtom

Starting to sound more like a punt or a big shoulder mounted market gun.
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Offline Old Ford2

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2015, 06:38:42 AM »
Hi Guys,
A friend of mine has a dandy.
The barrel is 2" bore, smooth bore, with a 9 foot barrel.
It is flint.
If it would help, I could get a couple of pictures.
A little bit of a handful to carry about.
Fred
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kaintuck

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2015, 01:03:49 AM »
 ;DI believe we have a shoulder/punt gun........
1" smooth-bore, SWAMPED barrel 54"~ In the Jaegar swamped fashion~ carvings, and BP is missing with some termite damage to toe area, the stock has been shortened, but it was full length originally, as there are 2 tenon cuts on the bottom on the barrel, there has been a sight blank, and the sight re-slotted back toward the tang, tang is almost straight. All brass furniture, Fowler BP missing completely....cap-lock works, but is rusty and slow, the bore has slight rust, but beefy enough to be re-bored~1-1/4"...probably 25#.
Any ideas fella's? it's a widow's gun, what would a price to set it at for her to sell?










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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: PUNT gun, shoulder stocked
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2015, 01:41:42 AM »
Well, that certainly isn't what I was betting on! Seems to be a German wall gun. Set triggers right? Used to be flint. I'm sure it must be pre 1770. Did you see traces of riflings? Probably was rifled at one time. Very nifty. Gotta see more pics....certainly you took more pics..... :-\
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kaintuck

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Re: PUNT gun, shoulder stocked
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2015, 02:47:45 AM »
Mike, these were the ones today, I really didn't see any rifling sign, and the trigger seemed a bit mushy for such a nice construction as she is.....trigger group could be a replacement, as there was a replacement tang bolt....with a square modern nut.....the trigger guard had the little ear bent down to accomidate the square nut......so, yes, they could of been a dual set trigger originally----
Not really sure what to look for if the flint hammer group was replaced with a drum......

Interesting....a German wall gun.......BTW,the barrel at breach is 2".......but by my measurements, the breach plug is 3/4"-1".

Very nice carving, and metalwork......I was thinking German also.....and after a second look, mike, the trigger plate is missing....and the hammer looks more new.......

But what's the worth???.....nope, I don't want it, just wondering fellas what to tell her for a fair sale price....

Marc n tomtom
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 02:51:14 AM by kaintuck »
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: PUNT gun, shoulder stocked
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2015, 03:43:25 AM »
You can see the flint pan moulding on the plate, around the new percussion drum. I thought the "new" trigger was the rear set trigger. Looks as if it originally had just a plain single trigger. Value? beats me. I'd send it off to Rock Island Auction. They will get what ever current market value is if it's written up correctly.
 If you get to see it again drop a bore light down it, it has had to have had rifling when it was new. Also check for a notch above the lock plate that gave clearance to the flint cock.
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Wall gun
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2015, 06:31:01 AM »

Swamped barrel? The whole thing looks like it came from a swamp.Where has it been and where was it found?

Bob Roller
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 07:48:58 PM by Tim Crosby »
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kaintuck

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Re: PUNT gun, shoulder stocked
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2015, 02:51:45 PM »
Bob,it was sitting in a crate on her garage for 20+yr. Her husband passed, there is also a 64 2 door Buick convertible and a poorsh there too...
Is 500 too low for this piece, or 900?.....
I can get trigger plate and lock  pictures along with butt damage and update......pm me if you have any ideas....like I said...tomtom and I have no interest,  I just opened my big mouth to help out, and now here I go....
But a person could restore her with some work and have a super cool mantle gun.....

And she is telling me her grandfather did shoot it at least 75yr ago.....
Marc n tomtom

Ps...bob, did you really make this lock???? I bet a box of donuts you could convert it back to a flint...???!!
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Offline Bob Roller

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Re: PUNT gun, shoulder stocked
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2015, 04:03:27 PM »
Quote from: kaintuck on November 16, 2015, 02:51:45 PM
Bob,it was sitting in a crate on her garage for 20+yr. Her husband passed, there is also a 64 2 door Buick convertible and a poorsh there too...
Is 500 too low for this piece, or 900?.....
I can get trigger plate and lock  pictures along with butt damage and update......pm me if you have any ideas....like I said...tomtom and I have no interest,  I just opened my big mouth to help out, and now here I go....
But a person could restore her with some work and have a super cool mantle gun.....

And she is telling me her grandfather did shoot it at least 75yr ago.....
Marc n tomtom

Ps...bob, did you really make this lock???? I bet a box of donuts you could convert it back to a flint...???!!

Marc n tomtom,
I wouldn't give a dollar bill for that gun if I had to keep it but IF you can get $500 for it then go for it.
I reconverted a few locks when I worked for Dixie in the Summer of 1958 but have done no more since.
If the cars are in as bad shape as the gun,they may be more valued as a parts source than a complete car.
The Porsche is what series?? Some of those in deplorable condition bring big bucks but I am no expert on them.
Rarity is the key with these German cars as to value.
My regards to tomtom. I set out food for all the strays,cats,dogs and whatever else and I hand fed a big cat last night. If it's still around during winter we will give it a warm place to stay and food as well.
Good luck with these relics.

Bob Roller
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: PUNT gun, shoulder stocked
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2015, 07:10:59 PM »
 I'm kind of surprised that it doesn't seem to have a yoke, with a pin to mount it on a wall. Carving and stock style kind of looks Christian Springish, especially the cheekpiece. I'd say it definately is a wall gun, rather than a punt gun. Most punts are pretty crude, where this one was nice, in its day.

         Hungry Horse
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kaintuck

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2015, 02:51:45 AM »







you can see the wall gun mount point...screwdriver all the way thru....
the gun must of been a flinter,then converted...you can see the frizzen spring holes, and stuff.....the front sight is brass...didn't get the dang picture of it...looks just like ours~only bigger...see the swamp in the barrel???
the barrel tennons been gone ALONG time....and the rear sight has been worn off, but had a little brass insert i guess, there is a filled slot in front of this one....the butt has been used as is for 100+ years by the looks!

anyhow......tell me what you think..........and it IS a smooth bore.....see has NO rifleing.....all the way to the breach.........

marc n tomtom
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2015, 03:36:18 AM »
Nifty. Probably was bored out smooth long ago and used as a wild fowling gun. I'm pretty intrigued by this old relic. Is it bored for a ram rod hole?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 03:39:27 AM by Mike Brooks »
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kaintuck

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2015, 04:20:24 AM »
No mike.....it is a separate rod, with a worm on one end and a plunger on the other,,,,,interesting to note....small ring carved in the rod, just about to mark a loaded indicator.....like I did on my cannon ram rod.
Marc n tomtom
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2015, 04:24:06 AM »
You mean about the size of a toilet plunder? ;)
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Offline Feltwad

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2015, 06:22:57 PM »
Kaintuck
What you have is a long barell flintlock converted to percussion fowling gun better known has a bank gun or wall gun .These guns were used on the fore shore either from the sand dunes or the sea wall  for shooting wildfowl feeding on the waters edge of a incoming tide , they were classed has tools of the trade for which to many fowlers it was their living.Most guns were 4 bore but some were also 2 bore all were smooth bore, for shooting small waders number 5 and 6 lead shot was used for geese and swans  large swan shot was used
Punt guns are larger with bore size up to 1.1/2 inches  and some even larger these were used from a punt they had a hole in the butt or stock to rope them to the punt , it must be noted that when these punt guns were fired  the reciol would push the punt back up too 12 yards.
Guns that were rifled were know has rampart or swivel guns with shorter barrels most were used on board ship and fired either buck shot for boarding or a large conial bullet for shooting at the rigging ,these guns mostly came in 4 bore  Sorry cannot enter images also excuse spelling
Feltwad
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 10:46:18 PM by Feltwad »
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2015, 07:25:55 PM »
 I think the carving, and engraving automatically removes this piece from the market gun catagory. I have not seen ones barrel so radically swamped either. This gun also is a little too fancy for a wall gun used on some remote location on the frontier. So could it have been shoulder fired swivel, from a ship? Or, possibly a wall gun from a semi-fortified estate, or plantation?
 In any case it's not your average piece, by a long shot.

     Hungry Horse
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2015, 08:24:57 PM »
Quote
Or, possibly a wall gun from a semi-fortified estate, or plantation?
Good possibility for protection  for a euro estate I suppose. Could have been brought in country for the Rev. War. We were pretty desperate for arms and cast about widely for anything that could be bought.
 If Stophel saw this he could probably nail down where it was built, he's pretty sharp with German guns.
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Offline Feltwad

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2015, 08:47:16 PM »
This gun is  Continental and is used by fowlers and known has a bank or wall gun
Feltwad
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 12:17:58 AM by Feltwad »
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Offline WKevinD

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2015, 10:30:19 PM »
I have no idea where I got this photo but it is a punt gun
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: wall gun??PUNT gun??, shoulder stocked
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2015, 10:35:43 PM »
Quote from: Feltwad on November 17, 2015, 08:47:16 PM
This gun is  Continental and is used by fowlers and known has a bank or wall gun
Feltwad
It is a purpose made wall gun. It's later use was as a fowling gun.
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