Author Topic: Markings on an American Bess type musket (Read 9082 times)

debnal · « **on:** November 15, 2015, 05:59:50 AM »

I just got an American made Bess type musket. On the left side where the wrist meets the comb it is stamped "E L R No 3". Does anyone have clue as to what this may signify?
Regards,
Al

debnal · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2015, 06:53:47 AM »

Here is a picture of the marking.

Robert Wolfe · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2015, 11:29:38 PM »

No idea but would love to see the rest of it!

debnal · « **Reply #3 on:** November 17, 2015, 12:13:32 AM »

I'd be happy to email pictures of the gun via PM to anyone.
Al

Keb · « **Reply #4 on:** November 17, 2015, 05:09:52 PM »

I'd like the pics. Thank you very much.

debnal · « **Reply #5 on:** November 17, 2015, 05:54:03 PM »

Keb,
Please send me a PM.
Al

RAT · « **Reply #6 on:** November 17, 2015, 07:17:41 PM »

Numbers on military arms tend to be rack numbers associated with the unit and not related to the manufacturer. This looks pretty crude, like it was done by the soldier himself (if the markings are original). Maybe his initials and a rack number?

smart dog · « **Reply #7 on:** November 17, 2015, 07:35:01 PM »

Hi,
Ebenezar Learned formed a regiment that was called "Ebenezar Learned's Regiment" early in the AWI. It eventually became the 3rd Continental Regiment in 1776. Just a guess.

dave

Hungry Horse · « **Reply #8 on:** November 17, 2015, 08:22:04 PM »

Now know why they call you Smartdog instead of Rover. I think you hit the nail on the head. Unless I'm wrong those letters and numbers look like they were carved in, not stamped.

Hungry Horse

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #9 on:** November 17, 2015, 08:26:45 PM »

That kind of stuff is so cool! Crude? I don't think so. The graffiti I carve into guns is more crude....

debnal · « **Reply #10 on:** November 17, 2015, 08:33:56 PM »

The letters are carved into the stock. They appear to be old and contemporary with the gun. I was told there war also a group called the Ethiopian Loyalist Regiment composed of freed slaves in Norfolk, Va. The regiment was raised by the Va. governor to fight with the British.
Al

smart dog · « **Reply #11 on:** November 17, 2015, 09:02:26 PM »

That is very interesting Al! I wonder though if they fought for the Brits if they would not have been armed by them? You mention it is an American-made musket.

dave

debnal · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2015, 09:08:26 PM »

Dave,
I thought the same but there is very little information on that regiment. I may be able to add more pictures later so you may see hwy I call it American made- but, as always, I could be wrong.
Al.

debnal · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2015, 10:26:41 PM »

Here are some additional pictures of the musket.

debnal · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2015, 10:34:35 PM »

Some more pictures. It seems to me to be a copy of a 1742 pattern musket.

debnal · « **Reply #15 on:** November 17, 2015, 10:50:36 PM »

The barrel is 46 inches long with a .80 caliber bore. Lock is 7 inches. It was built for sling swivels- not present. What makes me think American- non English marked barrel and lock, different shape to sideplate, triggerguard, butt plate tang, and thumbpiece. Well built,sturdy,heavy musket.
Al

E.vonAschwege · « **Reply #16 on:** November 17, 2015, 11:29:56 PM »

Very neat gun! I wouldn't call it English. The details on the triggerguard have a Dutch feel, and the lock is Dutch to my eye. As with so many potential American muskets of that period it's probably a mix of different European parts built along the same lines as a Bess. Can't help you on the initials though. Thanks for sharing,
-Eric

bones92 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 18, 2015, 10:04:03 PM »

Beautiful musket. Thanks for sharing. It seems entirely plausible that a soldier would carve both E.L.R. and No. 3, perhaps done as a sign of pride in the unit.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2015, 12:23:35 AM »

Quote from: E.vonAschwege on November 17, 2015, 11:29:56 PM

Very neat gun! I wouldn't call it English. The details on the triggerguard have a Dutch feel, and the lock is Dutch to my eye. As with so many potential American muskets of that period it's probably a mix of different European parts built along the same lines as a Bess. Can't help you on the initials though. Thanks for sharing,
-Eric

Could be a Dutch contract gun. The English did that from time to time when they were hard pressed for arms.

smart dog · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2015, 01:15:31 AM »

Hi Al,
The wood looks like walnut to me but not American black walnut. I certainly cannot tell for sure but my first impression is that it is English or European walnut. The lock does look Dutch. Regardless, it certainly could have seen service in the AWI by America troops.

dave

debnal · « **Reply #20 on:** November 19, 2015, 03:25:09 AM »

Mike, Smart Dog,
I had considered that it might be a Dutch contract 1742 pattern made for the British. I want it to be American because that is what I collect. The irony is that it would be worth much less if it were American than if it were a contract model made for the English. The American muskets from the Rev War just don't get the love that the British guns do. I think someday that may change. I have always found Brown besses to be more expensive than comparable American made muskets of the same time period.
Al

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2015, 03:56:02 PM »

I don't believe it was made in colonial America.

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Author Topic: Markings on an American Bess type musket (Read 9082 times)