Period gunmaking question - pin holes?

[dogcatcher]

This is speculation on my part.  But my money would be betting on they used "spoon drill bits" with a bow drill to drill the holes.   I was given a vintage 1/4" spoon bit, it looked homemade.  The gentleman that gave it to me was in hos 70's in the mid 1970's, one of the best woodworkers I ever met.   I was having a problem drilling straight holes into the end grain of hardwood wood dowels.  With regular jobber bits the hole would start centered on one end and off on the other end.  I can't explain why but the spoon bit drill worked better than any drill bit I ever used.  All I know is the end grain would cause the standard drill bits to wander off center, but not with the spoon drill bit.  

This is a set of spoon drill bits, as listed n Lee Valley website.  "Vintage Yankee drill bits, shaped very much like shell bits."
 

Here are some from The Practical Machinist Forum.


Here is another link for info about vintage drill bits.  http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-borTools/z_Reading/boringBitstocks/boringBitstocks-02.asp

Here is some more good info.  http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters/Woodworking/5/3/collection.htm

[TMerkley]

For something that small, I would recommend just using the pin, (finish nail) as your drill bit for the wood.  The thimble can be marked and then drilled on the bench.  I have used the nails before and have not broken any of them like a 1/16th drill bit.  Not sure how far a brace will crank down too, but I have used my drill with a finish nail. then clip and file to fit.

[Mark Elliott]

Ok,  I have been busy this morning with improvements.   I made a new bow out of a ramrod and some waxed artificial sinew.   Then I turned a new spool for my 1/16" bow drill.   I am still using music wire for the drill sharpened like a fishtail metal drill bit.   The improved model is srtaighter and wobbles less.   I was able to drill a little less than an 1" in a minute.   Now I have to turn the spool for the 5/64" drill.    I am not going to be in such a hurry to do that now that I know the concept works.    I would like a better bow though.   It will have to be forged.  I will probably use 1/8"-3/16" mild steel rod.

   

[Bill Ladd]

This thread, and period building threads such as this, really make me grateful for my power tools.

If i didn't have a pesky job and more time to spend in the shop, I'd surely be tinkering with period tools such as these.

[Mark Elliott]

I still use my powertools, but I have a long term project to build an all handmade gun using period tools and techniques.   

[KNeilson]

I find this a very interesting thread. In a similar conversation several years ago I posted a pic of a couple "Archimedes drills" I got with some watch making tools that were passed down from an ancestor. Modern twist drills atm installed but some small spoon bits as dogcatcher has shown were in the box as well as fishtail styled bits. For me, I get a charge out of using this stuff as it gives me some form of connection with my ancestors as well as the crafts they pursued. 

[dogcatcher]

KNeilson tt looks like your "Archimedes drills" have collet holders, or maybe one has drill chuck.  I am pretty sure that collets were used way before our time. 

I have a small brass lathe that not only uses a system similar to collets, but kind of like the "collet" on an Xacto knife.  The lathe is marked 1747, I bought it at a flea market style market in Spain in about 1963.   

Back to the drill, we lived in Spain for 3 years, during that time I remember seeing a lot of woodworking machines that were older than anything I have ever seen here in the States.  One I remember was a drill press that was hand operated, not like a blacksmith drill press, but it looked like a brace and bit mounted on a wall so that it would slide down as the drill went deeper.  So that the drill was always at 90 degrees to the object being drilled.  I don't remember the types of drill bits, but the homemade drill press has always stuck in my mind.   In my mind the hole would have been drilled with some sort of jig, like a drill press so that the drill bit was always perpendicular to the piece of wood.   

Hand operated and period correct?  I don't know but it seems possible. 

Looking at the Archimedes drills that KNeilson posted, I think there could be a jig built to hold it so that it stays perpendicular to the stock.  That in itself would help prevent bit breakage, and the spoon bit would help insure a straight through hole. 

[KNeilson]

dogcatcher, interesting, I have a book with woodcuts that show these as well as what you describe. I entered these as a remote possibility, speculating also. I actually like using an egg beater one myself for the small amount Ive done. It was your picture of the spoon bits that prompted me, the few I have are quite similar. These are a collet style chuck, I think like your "exacto knife" type,and I was told they were quite old. That's about what I know. As far as the OP, Id bet a bow or pump drill with possibly a chuck to be more common due to ease of construction, maybe cause it would be capable of more speed and size/force also. Some how I think a fixture would have been considered too much effort for a couple holes, straight holes being expected of you. A lot could be possible ..just my swag  ...

[Mark Elliott]

KNeilson tt looks like your "Archimedes drills" have collet holders, or maybe one has drill chuck.  I am pretty sure that collets were used way before our time. 

I have a small brass lathe that not only uses a system similar to collets, but kind of like the "collet" on an Xacto knife.  The lathe is marked 1747, I bought it at a flea market style market in Spain in about 1963.   

Back to the drill, we lived in Spain for 3 years, during that time I remember seeing a lot of woodworking machines that were older than anything I have ever seen here in the States.  One I remember was a drill press that was hand operated, not like a blacksmith drill press, but it looked like a brace and bit mounted on a wall so that it would slide down as the drill went deeper.  So that the drill was always at 90 degrees to the object being drilled.  I don't remember the types of drill bits, but the homemade drill press has always stuck in my mind.   In my mind the hole would have been drilled with some sort of jig, like a drill press so that the drill bit was always perpendicular to the piece of wood.   

Hand operated and period correct?  I don't know but it seems possible. 

Looking at the Archimedes drills that KNeilson posted, I think there could be a jig built to hold it so that it stays perpendicular to the stock.  That in itself would help prevent bit breakage, and the spoon bit would help insure a straight through hole. 

You don't need a drill press to drill pin or screw/bolt holes through a stock.    I used to use a drill press, but not any more.   I can do just as good or better with a hand drill,  particularly if i drill from both sides to the middle.    The only things I still use a drill press for are installing a touch hole liner and drilling the holes through a lock plate.   I could do the lock plate by hand, but the drill press is quicker.   

[David R. Pennington]

Mark, have you seen the bow drills pictured In Wykes 18th century tool catalog? They look like a little fishing pole with a ratchet and pawl reel to keep the cord tight. I would suppose you would need to make it out of steel and draw to spring temper.

[Mark Elliott]

Mark, have you seen the bow drills pictured In Wykes 18th century tool catalog? They look like a little fishing pole with a ratchet and pawl reel to keep the cord tight. I would suppose you would need to make it out of steel and draw to spring temper.

I have seen those bows, but I have no idea how I would harden and temper something so big.   I was thinking of making one of mild steel with the bow forged in it.    I would only need just a little bit of spring to keep the line taught.   

[David R. Pennington]

Mark, I was doing blacksmith demo at local festival recently and one of demonstrators needed a broom needle to stitch brooms. I had no idea what it looked like. Someone in the crowd googled and found a picture. I found  a long enough piece of tool steel in my junk. Forging it and punching the eye was no problem, but how to harden and temper? I borrowed a pipe leg off a friends stove from his tent and plugged one end with wooden plug. I filled this partially with oil and suspended it with wire in slack tub. I heated the 10 to 11 inch needle carefully in forge to even non magnetic red temp and quenched in the pipe. It hardened beautifully. I polished it then and drew to just past purple shading into blue and quenched again. This would work for a bow. The only trick being to get the heat even over the entire length.

[Mark Elliott]

The only trick being to get the heat even over the entire length.

The thing is, that is a formidable trick with something 36" long and 1/8" thick or less.    I am not sure the whole thing needs to be hardened and tempered. 

[James Wilson Everett]

Mark,

I just used a length of spring steel flat stock bent into a bow shape.  One end went into a simple wood handle and the other end had a small hole.  The string was a heavy linen cord tied to the end hole, the near end just held tight as I gripped the wood handle.  No heat treatment of the steel was necessary at all.  Heat treatment of steel does not alter the stress/deflection characteristic at all.  Since then I gave up on bow drills and have used up the bow in making other springs.  Great so see your interest in HDTDT and in original tools.  You certainly do merit my admiration for your work.

Jim

[James Wilson Everett]

Guys,

A question above was concerning the use of chucks & collets in the period.  The earliest patent I could find for a drill bit collet/chuck that would hold a round shank drill bit was patented in 1864.  The Jacobs chuck we all know and love was patented in 1902.  All previous drill collet/chuck patents all seem to address different ways of retaining the old style tapered square shank bits.  I could find no referenced patents for the "lantern stock".   Probably this particular device was so well know that it was not a patentable idea, it certainly was well known by the time John Wyke published his tool catalog in the mid-18th c.

So, for a HC tool, such chucks were not used until the very late muzzle loading period.

Jim

[WKevinD]

Mark,
Would you like a fencing foil blade? Spring tempered steel, 35" long blade with a 6" threaded (6mm) tang  3/16" at the heavy end -1/8" at the tip.
Send a PM and I can mail you a blade.
Kevin