Author Topic: ball size?  (Read 15530 times)

Offline hanshi

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2009, 03:29:11 AM »
Oh, I should add, Daryl; that I in no way doubt the results you get from your loading practices.  We have a saying: "There are many paths going up Mount Fuji, but they all lead to the top".
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Leatherbelly

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2009, 03:39:16 AM »
   I have only used lubed patches. Makes sense for hunting to use a dry wad. I've heard it works well in some smoothies.(for hunting)

roundball

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2009, 04:04:40 PM »
   I have only used lubed patches. Makes sense for hunting to use a dry wad. I've heard it works well in some smoothies.(for hunting)

Just to toss in some additional views from my particular experiences:
1) I have always used an Oxyoke pre-lubed wool wad over powder for my large powder charge hunting loads in my various rifles;

2) I have run chronograph tests with and without wads with the following results:
       A) Standard deviation dropped from the 25fps area all the way down to "6".
       B) Then to my shock and surprise, contrary to my assumption that there would be a
            subsequent velocity increase due to the improved sealing, there was not...in
            fact velocity dropped off 20-30fps

3) When I got into smoothbores and started conducting load development and range tests, I naturally used Oxyoke wads as I had for years in my rifles.
The GM smoothbore barrels have rear sights on them and frankly they're basically as accurate as a rifle at the 50 yards I zeroed them for deer hunting in thick woods.
But after 2-3 range trips with all sorts of variations to my hunting load configurations, I was pulling my hair out over an occasional flyer.  I could run several .600" balls into a single ragged 1.5"-2" hole then all of a sudden one would print 4-5" off to the right...next group of 10 might have one print 4-5" low left...no pattern.
Then in desperation and against all previous experience, I tested without using the Oxyoke OP wad and never had another flyer.  When I added the wad back in the mix, I got the occasional flyers again.

This phenomenon occurred with both the GM .54cal and .62cal Flint smoothbore barrels.
So, then thinking that maybe I was occasionally getting gas blowout on one edge right at muzzle exit that could be tipping things off course, I tried using 2 Oxyoke wads...then 3 wads...but no help...as long as wads were being use I got the occasional flyers in those smoothbores.
So on the .54cal, I dropped back down to a Hornady .520" ball so I could use a thicker .018" pillow ticking and accuracy is outstanding with 90grns Goex 3F and no patch burn through.
I probably could have done the same thing on the .62cal...dropped down to a .595" and used a thicker pillow ticking, but instead I experimented by having Ed Rayl add rifling, it was a tack driver, filled my deer tags with it the past two years so that was a good overall learning experience...actually just sold that .62cal 'rifle' to help finance a .58cal Virgina I'm having built.

Leatherbelly

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2009, 04:12:30 PM »
 Roundball,
  Glad you found a custom to your liking. Once you step into this new realm,there's no looking back.Kit or plank? Oh, and thanks for the "wad" info. I'll save mine for shot.

roundball

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2009, 04:38:26 PM »
Kit or plank?
From a plank...and with this being my first and very probably only "long rifle" due to my age, I went ahead and sold a few accumulated T/C Hawkens and even a couple of centerfires I no longer use to finance the whole thing without worrying about cutting any corners.
Told Matt Avance to find the finest looking piece of super premium ++ maple that he could, and am going with a reddish sort of a stain/finish and brass furniture.
Chambers deluxe siler and a Rice .58 caliber swamped D-weight 38" barrel
Lock/barrel/breech finished sort of a pewter silver to go with the red-ish stock finish
Davis Double Set Triggers, looking for it around the end of June

PS:
But to be clear, from a high level perspective I look at it this way...I currently have a 100% reliable, very accurate 33" barreled .58cal half stock Flintlock...and am simply adding a 38" barreled full stock .58cal Flintlock to the mix.
Because I have to say that a houseful of T/C Hawkens, with their redesigned Flint lock assemblies have lacked for nothing...every time I've tripped the sear on a buck he's gone right down, same with turkeys, squirrels, etc...they have been outstanding in every respect and I've enjoyed/will continue to enjoy shooting them in various calibers and gauges right on.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 04:54:14 PM by roundball »

Daryl

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2009, 05:56:31 PM »
Flintr - thanks for your last posts.  There was a lot of muddy water and I was not grasping it all. My mistake.

Roundball - as to the wads, I found in the small bores, they opened up groups but not by much - too much for paper punching, but not too much for hunting. I also found the 14 bore rifle didn't care about wads, with or without - but like the smaller bores, didn't actually need them - as below.

Taylor's experiments last winter showed none of the lube combinations he tested outdoors for 5 days, showed no powder contamination when he unloaded it from the breech. I was expecially pleased by this testing as I'd always felt that a wad was needed - as Flintr also noted as well. Now we know one isn't needed to protect the powder - at least with Hoppe's 9 Plus and what was it, Moose snot? lube. We also know that due to drying out and then rusting that LHV is not a good lube when leaving the rifle (or pistol)  loaded for an extended hunt. Of course, it or it's copies would be OK for a day's hunt for small game, firing off or pulling the load every night.

Offline hanshi

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2009, 06:34:04 PM »
As you mention, Daryl, powder contamination is not much of a problem with most lubes including the ones you spoke of.  I actually "create" the problem with my favorite lube, which is water based, for reloads.  I also like the patches nice and wet which doesn't help the matter.  This is for reloads only and for when the gun will be fired fairly soon after and really works great on long strings.

Up until last year I lived in a hot, humid climate where temps in the 70s weren't all that unusual in deer season.  Needless to say such conditions doesn't necessarily help the lube situation.  Most lubes, other than water based ones, are pretty benign in my opinion as far as powder contamination goes.  At least I've never had a problem leaving a load in a gun for up to several days as long as I used a good lube.  Wouldn't do it with a watery one wad or no wad.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

Daryl

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2009, 04:43:00 PM »
We-too use dripping wet patches and mostly spit as they work well in eliminating any fouling buildup with the ball/patch combos we use. That is for targets & I've never run out of spit although I've come close - carrying water helps by taking a drink now and then - when hunting, one of the greases is used, like Mink oil or a mix of beeswax and something like neetsfoot oil or olive oil.  Trouble was cold weather(sub minus 20) here during hunting season - mink oil worked fairly well for a few shots - generally more than needed. I found criso oil to work also, in the 14 bore rifle, but mink oil was better than crisco oil.  A mink oil saturated patch softened instantly if you pressed it between two fingers & loaded just fine.  I used a wad to prevent powder contamination when using greased patches.  In the large bore, I found a properly made paper ctg. shot was well as patched round ball and would allow 10 shots before having to shoot a light 82gr. load load with spit patch to clean the barrel - then could shoot another 10 paper ctgs with undiminished accuracy.   Buffalohunter has tested paper ctgs. down to .54 cal and found they also worked.  Dphar and BS2 have also tested these tight, paper ctg.s in their 16 and 12 bores with same accuracy as patched round balls.  All it takes is the right sized ball and two wraps of .003" paper. No lube was used, but that is another avenue for testing.

Offline hanshi

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Re: ball size?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2009, 06:29:55 PM »
I'm fortunate to live in the sunny south and am spared many of those problems.  Some have mentioned Pine Sol & water as a great lube but I've never tried it.  Probably will, though.  Haven't had the chance to try the oils, yet.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.