Author Topic: B.P. Shotgun Shooting  (Read 16708 times)

Offline Kermit

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2015, 07:05:47 PM »
Years ago I read V. M. Starr's piece on the muzzleloading shotgun, tried his methods, found he was right, and haven't looked back. It still holds, at least for me. I encourage reading this:

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/starr.html

Now you only need to carry one measure and one kind of card. No more cushions and no more holes in patterns. Powder--two thin overshot cards--shot--one ditto card. Equal volumes of powder and shot.
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West

Offline Squirrel pizza

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2015, 08:57:05 PM »
Ya know Kermit, anytime I go into something thinking "that sounds easy" usually ends poorly for me. That sounds too easy. But it makes sense and sounds exactly like that starting point I was looking for. But if I just have the card over the shot, what will keep the shot from rolling out? Cards being so thin and all.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2015, 12:20:15 AM »
I don't know about 8 inches at 75 yards..... :o
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Offline Squirrel pizza

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2015, 12:53:48 AM »
Like I said, was hoping to hear wonderful things that would make me have to own one. Admittedly, that was stretching it a bit!

Offline axelp

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2015, 01:33:28 AM »
A prolific hunter friend of mine uses one measure for powder and just doubles the measure for the shot. This seems to make a tolerably tight pattern for turkey. He uses a cardboard wad over the powder and splits a cardborad wad for over the shot. Pretty simple. I like simple too. He sometimes resorts to a postit note shot cup and he says it makes for a tighter pattern farther out.

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Offline Skychief

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2015, 03:05:58 AM »
On another BP forum, several shooters report good patterns using the a cushion wad as an over shot card.  Powder, OP wad, shot, then cushion wad.......robin  :)
The other board people are keyboard commandos that rarely leave the house to shoot. ;D They also wear tinfoil hats....... ;D

Really, Mr. Brooks?  ::)

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2015, 03:15:56 AM »
On another BP forum, several shooters report good patterns using the a cushion wad as an over shot card.  Powder, OP wad, shot, then cushion wad.......robin  :)
The other board people are keyboard commandos that rarely leave the house to shoot. ;D They also wear tinfoil hats....... ;D

Really, Mr. Brooks?  ::)
Just my fist hand experience. Your experience may vary...
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Skychief

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2015, 03:40:14 AM »
On another BP forum, several shooters report good patterns using the a cushion wad as an over shot card.  Powder, OP wad, shot, then cushion wad.......robin  :)
The other board people are keyboard commandos that rarely leave the house to shoot. ;D They also wear tinfoil hats....... ;D

Really, Mr. Brooks?  ::)
Just my fist hand experience. Your experience may vary...

Oh, I see.  I missed that it was your experience (or notion, or opinion), in your post.  Thanks for clearing that up, Mr. Brooks.

Squirrel Pizza, you might give a heavily lubed cushion wad atop your shot charge a try.  It's worked REALLY well with my smoothbores.  It made for nice and dense patterns compared to more conventional loading arrangements.

That's been my experience, after testing/patterning pounds and pounds of powder and shot with different wad configurations.  This testing/patterning took place away from my keyboard while wearing regular styled hats.

In the field, this loading has shined.  Taking a nice gobbler this Spring and a truckload of squirrel since mid-August.  This hunting also took place away from any computers while wearing regular styled hunting caps.

Many have tried it and have found better results too.  My fowler has no choke by the way.  I hope that if you give it a try, you have favorable results as well.

Good luck, Skychief.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2015, 05:01:50 AM »
Lubed wad over the shot. Never would have tried it myself. Just goes to show anything is possible.
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Squirrel pizza

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2015, 08:24:04 AM »
Thanks Skychief, I appreciate all the help I can get.

Offline Skychief

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2015, 09:01:12 PM »
You bet.  Best of luck to you!!!

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2015, 10:24:42 PM »
O.K. Here's my two cents worth. I load my .20 ga. Trade gun with 75 gr. of FFG, then a blanket wad  punched from an old "WOOL" blanket, and dipped on one side only in hot venison tallow, and left to dry, then an ounce of shot, and a overshot card, with a slice in it, to let compressed air out. This performs well, and almost never blows the pattern.
 I've never had much luck with buckshot, but found that shot size that will nest in the bore work best. This of course depends on what size the bore is.
 oh, and buck, and ball, should be loaded just like you say it, buckshot nested on top of the charge, with the ball on top. The ball doesn't have to bore through the buckshot and send it in all direction this way.

      Hungry Horse

Offline Daryl

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2015, 06:37:16 PM »
The original buck and ball loads issued in military ctgs. both British (I assume) and the US as documented and found on battle fields, had the shot over the ball. The whole idea being increased probability of hitting someone. This worked, but as Hungry Horse indicates,  the ball behind probably makes the balls spread.

I did try buck and ball in my .53 cal. rifled pistol. I loaded a .526" ball over the powder charge, then 3 00 buck shot, then a thin card wad. At 12 yards, the balls would stay inside the 10 ring on a Police Sil. Target, and the balls would radiate out slightly, striking in the 8 ring, equally spaced around the center hit. It was very repeatable and would make a terrific SD load.

Loading the buckshot under the ball would make for tighter patterns on the balls, for sure. Stands to reason.
Daryl

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Offline hanshi

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #38 on: November 24, 2015, 02:39:59 AM »
I've never had any use for "buck n ball" loads; sounds too much like the guy who wears both a belt and suspenders.  ;D
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Offline Old Ford2

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2015, 03:52:00 PM »
Hi,
I have an original Bond percussion 12 ga. My best results with it is 80 grains of 2f, with a lubed felt wad ( bees wax 70%, Murphy's soap 15%, and olive oil 15% ) 1 1/8 shot 5&6 mix and cushion wad ( cut in half ) over shot.
I have been using this lube for years on patches on all my rifles.
It will completely penetrate a steel bean can at 50 yards, with an average of 6-8 shot pellets in the can.
The lubed felt wads ( home made ) keep me shooting all day.
This load is a safe load for any old shot gun in good shape.
I also shoot a patched .69 ball with the same lubed felt wad. The left barrel will hit a clay bird steadily at 50 yards.
The right barrel will do the same, but I need to use a different point of aim.
I have not shot deer with it, but it really slams steel gongs pretty hard.
By the way, clean up at end of day is a breeze with those felt wads keeping the fowling soft.
Fred
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 03:56:22 PM by Old Ford2 »
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Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #40 on: November 24, 2015, 08:10:19 PM »
 Hanshi;
 I never used buck, and ball, until the rendezvous I attended regularly, decided to put on an event they called a brush hunt. The event was a team event that required four hunters ( or as many that survived) to complete a hunting course. Taking enough game to sustain the group was a requirement, but surviving hostiles, terrain,and dangerous animals, was all part of the fun. The club had drawn up a simple set of rules, and anything not covered was fair. I discovered that although birdshot was not allowed, buckshot was. I started experimenting with buck, and ball, loads because straight buckshot loads sometimes hit everything but the target. I took my trade gun, and a trade pistol, while the rest of the crew shot rifled bore firearms. The buck, and ball, loads allowed me to take multiple heads of game with a single charge,(powder was rationed, as were percussion caps) and I dispatch multiple hostiles on one occasion as well. Heck, this old fat man and his team took this event the first two years it was offered. The third year the course was way long for my old hide, and the rule book looked like the Old Testament.

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Offline PPatch

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2015, 05:54:46 AM »
"The third year... the rule book looked like the Old Testament. "

Ain't that the way it goes! Thanks for the laugh HH.

dave
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Offline Daryl

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2015, 09:20:36 PM »
I've never had any use for "buck n ball" loads; sounds too much like the guy who wears both a belt and suspenders.  ;D

As Hungryhorse noted, those loads can be effective.  "Firearms of the American West" made note that either 2:1 or 3:1 buck and ball loads were fired by US soldiers than single ball loads.  When your life depended on "hitting" the buck and ball loads were favoured.  I also recall note that "Buckshot" only loads were preferred for night guard duty.  A shot fired into the dark as sounds of movement, oft-times resulted in "yelps from the wolves", however "no dead wolves" were ever found come morning to prove the shots resulted in hits. However, the frequency of hits resulted in the popularity of these loads.  In the early 1800's, a Buckshot load for the issue in the .69 Caliber (US you see, so not "calibre") issue musket was comprised of approximately and 9, 00 buckshot. I do not know what the powder charge was, but seem to think it was around 80gr.
Daryl

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Offline Levy

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2015, 12:25:23 AM »
Buck and Ball loads were used in Florida during the Second Seminole War and probably the other two also.  Several Buck and Ball loads were recovered near Ft. Pierce, FL.  I removed a Buck and Ball load from a Hall Carbine that was recovered from the Alafia River.  It was in cloth cartridge and the buck were facing the muzzle.

James Levy
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Offline Daryl

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Re: B.P. Shotgun Shooting
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2015, 08:55:23 PM »
Here are some Civil War recovered buck and ball loads.  These were standard military issue for the .69 Muskets still in use at that time.



In this picture, these 'found' buckshot and ball are stuck together due to the oxides. Note, the white oxide is toxic and not safe to handle ANY balls or bullets with this 'coating' (on them).



Here's a picture of a 'found' ctg. with the powder part missing, presumed broken or torn off.



Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V