Author Topic: Hawken stuff  (Read 87438 times)

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #75 on: January 14, 2016, 03:47:20 AM »
Thanks for the lesson Taylor. You made a spooky job not as scary.

Offline WaterFowl

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2016, 06:07:51 AM »
Thanks for the coments Taylor..Looks like there is plenty of meat on that tapered barrel.
Are the rivets just more h/c to this build?
could only imagine the amount of heat it would take to solider the rib and barrel together.
Thanks again..

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2016, 08:46:36 AM »
I know ribs were being soldered to barrels in Europe contemporary with guns made by the Hawken fellas.  But it is my understanding that riveting is the system they used, and it is a dandy.  It would be possible to simply file a ring around the rivet into which you punch the barrel steel to secure it, rather than use a lathe.  I think I'll make a special cutter that is only half the width of the parting tool I used on this and my last job.  I did a trial rivet and tested it for strength.  I could not pull it out.  It simply broke off when I used pliers to try to remove it.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline tallbear

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2016, 04:52:19 PM »
Super work and thread Taylor.Really enjoying following thanks for posting this!!!!!

Mitch Yates

Offline Ray Nelson

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2016, 05:53:50 PM »
Taylor,

Sam and Jake would be proud of you working in their shop!

Ray

Offline Dale Campbell

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2016, 07:30:52 PM »
Sam and Jake would be worried if he was working in another shop. ;)
Best regards,
Dale

Offline Ray Nelson

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2016, 09:52:53 PM »
Dale,

Amen to your comment!!! Indeed!!!

Ray

gmerrell

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2016, 10:53:49 PM »
Taylor,
After soldering the pipes on the underlug, do you do anything to neutralize the flux.
Thanks for the help
Greg

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2016, 12:54:46 AM »
I just use ordinary soldering flux, applying it with a little artist's paint brush.  Then I apply heat and tin the rib and the pipes with a piece of steel wool and more flux.  When I bring the heat up to join the pipes to the rib, I add more solder in the creases both sides.  It requires very little clean up.  The resin flux does not seem to attack the steel over the long term.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2016, 03:30:39 AM »
It might only be a minor concern, but would there ever be any problems from cleaning with water that moisture will get under and between the rib and barrel and maybe rusting?

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2016, 06:11:00 AM »
I was worried about that too Smylee.  But it apparently didn't concern our forebears, so I let the concern die.  I leave the breech end of the rib wide open so it can breathe.  And we by no means subject of guns to the rigors that they could expect in the 19th century.  A shot of WD 40 along the rib after cleaning, and/or hunting, and it should be fine.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2016, 08:58:52 PM »
I have not experienced any barrel rusting on the 2 guns (used to be 3) I have with wooden under ribs. I still use the dunk and pump method of cleaning with water. When I spray with WD40, I actually spray the surface, not merely damping a patch with it and wiping. I'm convinced the WD40 carries the moisture away.
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #87 on: January 22, 2016, 08:14:28 PM »
I've got the butt stocks for these two rifles roughed out.  I started with a big drawknife, shaving sharp, and knocked off the corners.  Then used rasps to get to this stage.  On the half stocked rifle, the second one pictured here, the wood is super hard, and I timed my work.  It took a little over two hours to go from bandsawed to fully shaped.  That surprised me.






And now the half stock...












I also have the nose pieces installed on both.  So now it's time to shape up the forestocks.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:41:16 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline David Rase

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #88 on: January 22, 2016, 08:29:21 PM »
Taylor,
Looking good!
David

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #89 on: January 22, 2016, 10:53:50 PM »
very nice indeed.By any chance did you happen to take a couple shots of how you shape your lock panels?You once mentioned that a broom handle with some 80 grit sandpaper will give you the proper taper.

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2016, 12:33:40 AM »
I'll put something together on that Joe.  Thanks David.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Gun_Nut_73

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2016, 07:20:11 AM »
I'm drooling on the keyboard.

JB2

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #92 on: January 23, 2016, 06:26:43 PM »
Dang!  My drawknife is nowhere near sharp enough!

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #93 on: January 23, 2016, 07:15:48 PM »
Part of what you may to attributing to sharpness may in part be technique.  You cannot simply plough through hard maple with the drawknife.  The cut must be a shearing cut to be most effective.  Check out the angle of the blade to the wood.  the more blade that comes into contact with the wood on each stroke, the easier it will pass through the wood, and the cleaner will be the cut.  Think of the Japanese katana.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #94 on: January 23, 2016, 07:42:17 PM »
arigato sensei Sapergia ;D or should I say tono
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 07:45:13 PM by Joe S. »

Offline Daryl

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #95 on: January 23, 2016, 10:06:35 PM »
It helps if you practice on bears with a katana. ;D
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Offline Marcruger

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #96 on: January 23, 2016, 11:02:11 PM »
That photo of the shaped-out stock tells me it is going to be a beautiful rifle.  I would appreciate seeing pictures when it is done.  If it becomes an orphan, there is a home for it here in North Carolina!   :-)   God Bless,   Marc

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #97 on: January 23, 2016, 11:49:58 PM »
That photo of the shaped-out stock tells me it is going to be a beautiful rifle.  I would appreciate seeing pictures when it is done.

It's unavoidable!
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline jerrywh

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #98 on: January 24, 2016, 01:11:04 AM »
 Disgusting.
  It will be a shame to shoot that thing.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 03:27:23 AM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Hawken stuff
« Reply #99 on: January 24, 2016, 02:56:07 AM »
This is pretty crude and rude compared to your rifles Jerry.  They are definitely made for shooting - target, trail and hunting.

Joe asked for something on panels so here goes...

After the barrel and tang, buttplate, lock and triggers are inlet, and while everything is still square and flat, and just before I begin shaping the buttstock, I draw the lock panel around the lock.  For a Hawken, there are many examples to choose from.  In this case, my rifle emulates the panels on the Kit Carson rifle (as best I can from pictures).  I like this style as it flows seemingly without interruption, forcing the eye to continue to follow the smooth curves.  Sexy to say the least!  On a Hawken, the panels are wider than they are on Eastern longrifles, Jaegers, and some English stuff, but don't go crazy...they are still refined and delicate.

Once the panel is drawn to your liking cut across the tail end at ninety degrees to the wrist just outside the tail of the panel, with a 1/2" rat tail file/rasp.  Don't cut the line you have drawn, and go into the wrist about 1/8".  This will give you a stopping line when you are shaping up the buttstock.  As you work from the butt plate forward, you will end up shaping up the back end of the lock panel as a natural progression, up to about the breech of the barrel.  I had already accomplished this prior to Joe's question, so this brief explanation is about all I can provide in that regard.

The offside to the lock remains flat and untouched until the lock side panel is finished.

So, now draw in the front end of the lock panel.  Pay attention to the images of originals in your reference material.  And once again, cut down across the stock with that 1/2" file just outside the forward end line of your panel.  Again I go in about 1/8", and as the stock is not flat but convex in shape here, I cut down toward the barrel and toward the trigger plate at the same time.  How far in you cut will be determined by how much wood you have through the forestock at the forward end of the lock.  I tapered this rifle's lock section by about 1/10", so the stock actually flares here and I have lots of wood.








A little bit of an aside here:  notice in the last picture that the stock is flat across the trigger plate, and that there is a 1/8" panel of wood separating it from the contoured part of the stock.  This narrow panel starts at the butt plate's toe and extends parallel to the trigger plate right to its forward end, where it will diminish into the convex shape of the forestock as we go along.


Now it is a simple matter, with gouges, rasps and files to shape the lock panel up to your drawn border.  In the process, you will also shape the forestock right out to the nose piece (already inlet).






Now that you have a finished lock panel take a piece of heavy paper, like cereal box or Brisol board that is a little bigger than your panel all the way around.  Punch a hole for your lock bolt and lay the paper over your lock panel, the bolt through the stock.  Holding it down with your thumb, press the paper against the sharp edge of your panel creating a crease in the paper.  You will move your thumbs around to get the whole panel outlined.  Now take the paper off the stock and turn it over.  You will see that you have an impression of your lock panel in the4 paper.  With a pen or pencil, follow the line all the way around the crease.  Cut this pattern out, including the line.  You will install it on the off side of your stock, and trace around the pattern, and if you have left the line, your outline will be larger than the panel on the other side.










It is a good idea to verify that the panel on the offside is exactly adjacent to the one on the lock side.  So draw a line at each end of the lock panel at ninety degrees to the stock, bring it across the bottom and up the other side.  You may need to make adjustments if everything didn't align. One thing that can interfere with this alignment, is drilling the lock bolt through the stock at something other than ninety degrees to the axis of the stock.  That is another reason that it is important to maintain centre lines all the way around your rifle as you proceed from one step to another.  It verifies alignment.






Now, make your cut across the stock with that fat round file, and have at it to duplicate the lock side panel.  That's where I am right now.  For the time being, I leave the panels sharp.  But one of the last things prior to staining and finishing is to gently round those surfaces, as was apparently done on original Hawken rifles.  Again, unless you are creating a patina'd rifle, go easy on the rounding.





« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:57:26 PM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.