Author Topic: Bending the Tang  (Read 10540 times)

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Bending the Tang
« on: November 20, 2015, 03:17:33 AM »
Like so many other things we do in building a rifle there are probably a dozen different tang bending techniques being practiced.  Mine is marginal in my opinion and I would like to learn about others. 

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 03:43:43 AM »
Jerry, tangs are never the right shape or curvature as received.  Hawken tangs may be the worst.  I have no idea what original rifle they were taken from, but IMMHO, such a rifle doesn't exist!

To start with, al the tangs I have worked with have been made of malleable steel...can be bent cold.  But, many tangs require being bent right at the breech plug journal, or very close to it.  To do this, I use red heat from a oxy/acetylene torch, heating only the are the needs to be bent, and then a heavy hammer to apply the bending force.  One or two good hits is better than a bunch of taps.  I do not want to rivet the steel out - just bend it down.  The same ca apply to the rest of the tang, to get it to follow the pattern you have.  You have a pattern, right?

Once that initial bend is in, a long tang may require bending in small increments along its length.  Here, I use Ken Guy's method - three vertical bars clamped strategically along the tang, and gentle pressure on the vise handle.  Some tangs, such as cast Hawken tangs, also require lateral bending, and these bars do the trick again in this case.

Occasionally, I just put the end of the tang in the vise, and using the barrel for the handle, bend away.  This is only when the bend is small and along a uniform thickness of steel.
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Offline jerrywh

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 03:49:48 AM »
 Be sure it doesn't bend at the tang screw hole.
Nobody is always correct, Not even me.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 04:16:24 AM »
Some of the tangs are quite thick, is there a disadvantage to thinning them just a small amount on the bottom and cutting some of that web away where tang meets breech plug on the bottom? If you only need a small amount of bend, it might bend just a little more easy in that spot.

Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2015, 04:41:21 AM »
That's what I do Smylee.  Works for me.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 04:54:27 AM »
Thanks for that reply Nate, I have also cut a series of shallow cuts across the bottom of the tang to make the bend smoother but I always wondered if I would have some type of problem latter on by doing so.

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 05:08:32 AM »
How I bend a tang depends on the bend that needs to be put in it.   Usually, you only need to bend the tang down a few degrees starting at the intersection of the tang and the recoil lug.    In that case,  I bend the tang with the plug installed in the barrel.   I simply clamp the tang, bottom facing me, in the vise just below the bend point with the barrel vertical.  Then I grasp  the barrel a few inches up from the breech such that I am not likely to put a bend in the barrel and then I pull toward myself.   A few small careful pulls with checks against the stock blank and I am done.  Any small adjustments to the curve I do with a file.   There is usually more than enough thickness in the tang to taper it toward the back adding a bit more curve.  

That is how I do it for most simple tangs.   However,  a lot of my tangs required forging to stretch and/or widen them, most often to a spear point.   In that case,  I screw the breech plug in a scrap barrel that I use to hold the plug and tang in the forge and while working over an anvil.   Bend is put in the tang after all the other forging work is done and it is done over the anvil with a hammer using normal forging technique.   E. TN over the comb tangs can be quite a bit of work, but not as much work as inletting them.   All the blacksmithing is beyond any single post.  


Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 04:24:03 PM »
I slip a monkey wrench over the tang to bend. The plug is installed, I have the muzzle on my toe, the breech in my left hand and the monkey wrench in my right. I pull down with the monkey wrench the amount I want to bend. It's quick and easy.
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Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2015, 07:47:47 PM »
I slip a monkey wrench over the tang to bend. The plug is installed, I have the muzzle on my toe, the breech in my left hand and the monkey wrench in my right. I pull down with the monkey wrench the amount I want to bend. It's quick and easy.

And to think I was worried about reporting the actual way I bend my tangs.    ;D       

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2015, 08:47:58 PM »
D. Taylor perhaps I need to learn more about your "pattern".  Yes I have a pattern and know the shape of that part of the rifle but I don't have a pattern I can hammer the tang over.  I am contemplating shaping a piece of strong wood to match the area under the tang and try cold bending with a series of heavy C clamps applying the force.  The tangs are simple short flintlock tangs about 2 1/4" in length from barrel.  The actual bend is minimal and in the past I have bent them in the vise with the barrel for leverage - accomplishing the final form by filing as I finish shaping the stock a la Mark Elliott's description.   

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2015, 08:49:33 PM »
I slip a monkey wrench over the tang to bend. The plug is installed, I have the muzzle on my toe, the breech in my left hand and the monkey wrench in my right. I pull down with the monkey wrench the amount I want to bend. It's quick and easy.

And to think I was worried about reporting the actual way I bend my tangs.    ;D       
I live right at the edge Mark. ;D
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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2015, 08:50:33 PM »
D. Taylor perhaps I need to learn more about your "pattern".  Yes I have a pattern and know the shape of that part of the rifle but I don't have a pattern I can hammer the tang over.  I am contemplating shaping a piece of strong wood to match the area under the tang and try cold bending with a series of heavy C clamps applying the force.  The tangs are simple short flintlock tangs about 2 1/4" in length from barrel.  The actual bend is minimal and in the past I have bent them in the vise with the barrel for leverage - accomplishing the final form by filing as I finish shaping the stock a la Mark Elliott's description.   
OVER THINKING! Just bend it......
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
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Offline T*O*F

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2015, 10:55:47 PM »
Quote
Yes I have a pattern and know the shape of that part of the rifle
That's all you need.  Just bend the tang and lay it on your pattern.  Tweak until it matches.
Dave Kanger

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Offline Lucky R A

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2015, 01:52:26 AM »
  If I have a tang that needs bent down a bit, I simply set the bottom extension on a steel dolly block and smack the tip of the tang w/ a hammer until it comes into compliance.   Most original buns have much thinner tangs than what we use today, so removing a bit of metal would not be out of the question as well.   There are many routes to the same destination, pick one and do it.   
"The highest reward that God gives us for good work is the ability to do better work."  - Elbert Hubbard

Offline Tom Currie

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 02:11:40 AM »
Rice tangs ( and maybe others ) have almost a half inch long body that you can't bend before the bendable part starts. In cases where a quicker drop is needed I file down the thick part which actually thins out the actual tang. Otherwise you are effectively flat for a half an inch or better. Hope that makes sense.

Offline sqrldog

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 02:21:51 AM »
Look under shop made tools back to Jan 2013 you will see a simple jig that takes all the fuss out of bending a tang. Use it to straighten or bend a tang. Hope this helps. Tim

Offline PPatch

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 02:54:21 AM »
D. Taylor perhaps I need to learn more about your "pattern".  Yes I have a pattern and know the shape of that part of the rifle but I don't have a pattern I can hammer the tang over.  I am contemplating shaping a piece of strong wood to match the area under the tang and try cold bending with a series of heavy C clamps applying the force.  The tangs are simple short flintlock tangs about 2 1/4" in length from barrel.  The actual bend is minimal and in the past I have bent them in the vise with the barrel for leverage - accomplishing the final form by filing as I finish shaping the stock a la Mark Elliott's description.  
OVER THINKING! Just bend it......

I second that emotion, what Mike said. Also, what Master Taylor meant by pattern was a drawing, he drafts out each gun he is considering before touching wood or metal. Course no one ever seeee's him doing that  ;D  ;)

dave
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 02:55:36 AM by PPatch »
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 03:13:51 AM »
I have two Hawken rifles on the bench right now...a full stocked .50 cal and a half stocked .62 cal.  Both of these rifles have had the barrels inlet, and the pattern drawn on the wood and cut to the line with a bandsaw.  I do not leave much extra wood.  So I laid the barrel over the wood, parallel and even with the bottom line of the barrel drawn on the wood, and check to see how the tang aligns.  Where it does not, I bend it.  That's the pattern.

Rice's breech plugs have parallel recoil lugs, both along their sides and along the back edge.  They are twice as heavy as they need to be.  Use a hack saw and remove about a third of the length of the lug, and at an angle so that inletting is precise, and file draft onto the sides of the lug for the same reasons.  They are made out of hard cheese, so filing is a dream.  Never be satisfied with the parts as received.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2015, 06:44:50 AM »
D. Taylor,

Is this about the way you are suggesting?  Plus more draft on the sides of the lug? 


Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2015, 07:59:20 AM »
Yes Jerry...taper it so it is narrower at the bottom of the recoil lug than at the top, where it meets the top flat of the barrel.  The plug should be as wide there as the top flat.  And the sides of the tang should have a taper to match, top to bottom edge all the way around the end.  Then as you inlet it into the top of the stock, it gets tighter and tighter, until there is a perfect wood to metal fit all the way from top to bottom.  Strive to achieve that fit, for it will make the joint as strong as it can be, and less likely to chip out or fracture.  Any time there is room to move, it will.  Also taper the recoil lug so that its back face has a slope, getting thicker front to back, as you rise up to the top.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2015, 02:35:14 PM »
D. Taylor,

Is this about the way you are suggesting?  Plus more draft on the sides of the lug? 


Make the inside corner square, not with a radius. The radius will naturally want to lift the barrel during recoil.
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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2015, 02:52:55 PM »
Here's another idea. This one from Ken G in tutorials. This has worked well for me.

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=13420.0


            CW
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 02:55:11 PM by dogface »

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2015, 03:44:35 PM »
JUST BEND IT FOR PETE'S SAKE! :D
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Offline flehto

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2015, 06:24:31 PM »
After tapering the bolster {that's what I call it} and removing a lot of depth and the large radius of the bolster. I still end up w/ a tang that's a lot thinner at the bolster than at the end of the tang. Seeing I like to start the curve of the wrist some distance into the bbl. or  at the breech end and the tang above the bolster won't bend, how do you guys eliminate the possible flat at the beginning of the wrist?...Fred   

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Bending the Tang
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2015, 06:46:27 PM »
Fred,  I know exactly what you mean.  I will sometimes shorten the recoil lug so that the bend can start sooner.

My method?  Smooth vise jaws, clamped loosely on the tang, bend as needed, try, and adjust till it fits.  Takes 5 minutes tops
In His grip,

Dane