Author Topic: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?  (Read 23509 times)

Online Clark Badgett

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2017, 06:23:56 AM »
I'm coming along kinda late to this. Why do PRBs require so much stiffer loads than what these old CW era rifles would have been issued at that time? Not that Zoauve rifles made it to the fight or anything ;D The standard US arsenal loading was normally around 65 gr M powder for the Minie bullet. Just curious is all, and I'm sure many around here have much more time shooting these that I have.

As an aside, does anyone have a picture or link to a picture of the old .54 cal M1841 Mississippi rifle arsenal cartridge? The kind that had the ball wrapped in linen and tied to the paper cartridge.
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Offline Leatherbark

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2017, 03:06:07 AM »
The skirt of the Minie' ball would flare upon exiting if the powder charge was much more than 65 grains.  Thus the heavier loads with a ball.


Bob

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2017, 08:38:35 AM »
I'm coming along kinda late to this. Why do PRBs require so much stiffer loads than what these old CW era rifles would have been issued at that time? Not that Zoauve rifles made it to the fight or anything ;D The standard US arsenal loading was normally around 65 gr M powder for the Minie bullet. Just curious is all, and I'm sure many around here have much more time shooting these that I have.

As an aside, does anyone have a picture or link to a picture of the old .54 cal M1841 Mississippi rifle arsenal cartridge? The kind that had the ball wrapped in linen and tied to the paper cartridge.


Further to Bob's post, we use loads with patched round balls & loads that give the best accuracy in our rifles for shooting smaller targets than what the military needed.  The military has different criteria for target - their target is roughly 5 1/2 feet tall x 15" wide. Their intent was to wound or kill- didn't matter as if wounded with a .58 cal. or .69 cal. bullet which they called a ball, would generally incapacitate that enemy - take him out of the fight and probably kill him anyway.

With patched round balls we need flatter trajectories to hit well without having to know range. Military rifles were generally sighted high, meaning they hit higher than the point of aim, not a bad thing as their target was roughly 2feet taller than the point of aim, which usually was the gut area - thus their arching trajectory (no point blank range) did not matter. Hold in the middle of the man right out to about 150yards or so and you will take him out of the battle - wounded or dead, no matter, one was as good as the other and the wounded soldier had a poor chance of survival anyway.

With patched round balls we wish to kill game quickly, not merely wound them. Thus, we need velocity for accuracy over unknown ranges, and penetrative power through higher speeds as well.  It can be easily shown in our rifles, that 65 to 75gr. of powder is most accuracy in a .40 to .45 and 80 to 100gr. is most accurate in a .50, 90 to 115gr. better in a .54, etc.  The powder charges needed, usually increase as the bore size increases, to the point where it is not comfortable to shoot the larger bores.  Thus, I am considering buying a 20 bore barrel to replace my current 14 bore barrel. I already have the moulds, so why not?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 08:41:51 AM by Daryl »
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V

Online Clark Badgett

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2017, 06:41:44 AM »
Thanks for the clear explanations Bob and Daryl.  :D
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Offline Eddie Southgate

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2017, 09:00:08 PM »
O, and one guy said to use FFF and others said FF.  Whats best//

Thanks


    Which ever works best in your barrel . I use the FFG in anything over .40 .  .570 rb , ticking , and between 60 and 75 grains of FFG is what I shoot in my early Zoli when I am not shooting a Minnie . In minnies I shoot the Ideal 575213 improved version of the OS straight out of the mold with the old amber colored Lithium based cup grease in the base and a light smear on the grooves . Usually shoot 70 grains of FFg for hunting and a lot less for short range (25- 50 ) target .

   Eddie

    Eddie
Grumpy Old Man With A gun ,,,,, Do Not Touch !

Offline JCKelly

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2017, 08:21:09 PM »
Seven hundred years experience with powder made from potassium nitrate, sulphur and charcoal.

So you really wanna use some artificial powder with a few decades experience?

BTW pitting in a black powder caplock gun may also be from corrosive caps. Or the salt water many swear buy as a bore cleaner. Yeah, percussion caps used to be corrosive, from the chlorate used in the priming compound.

BP itself, I don't really know but am fairly sure, is not all that corrosive. Early rifles using smokeless often have badly corroded bores now. Those shot only with black, and the same type primers, are often OK. Seems to me one of the products of combustion, black powder, is potassium carbonate. Which is slippery. It is also called potash, and to some degree inhibits corrosion from primer chloride residue, and whatever nasty sulphur compounds are formed. 

Yeah, I like black. But then, I do live in the US and have had more powder than I'll ever use delivered to my door.

Offline Daryl

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Re: .58 Zuave round balls, Load?
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2017, 10:38:37 PM »
One other aspect of the differences between military thinking and hunters, is that the military considered ricochets as extending "the effective range of fire" for any sight setting. Thus, they could aim 'center of mass' out to about 300yards with the close range sight picture and quite likely expect to hit 'someone' - 'hitting' being as much the intent as killing. The conical shaped somewhat pointy Minnie balls bounced even better than round balls. YAHOO
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V