Author Topic: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles  (Read 5529 times)

Mike

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Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« on: December 09, 2015, 06:48:41 AM »
I tried Circle Fly .50 fibre wads in a 50 cal. flint rifle. It shot well and left the bore really clean with no need to wipe between shots. I had lubed the sides of the wads with Wonder Lube, but am wondering about possible pressure problems.  I can't see any issue but have not heard of anyone else doing this which left me wondering.   Anybody else do this?  It does seem to solve the fouling problem, but things worked so great I wondered if it was too good to be true.  I might just try half a wad next time to see if results are the same.

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2015, 07:11:24 AM »
What else do you use in your load? ball size,patch and thickness etc.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2015, 02:40:42 PM »
I have heard of people using fiber wads with good results. I have never tried them myself. You don't have to worry about high pressure with a flint gun.
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Mike

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2015, 07:45:56 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I use a .490 round ball and a .015 patch in Coleraine barrel.  The rifle is an excellent shooter.  I am thinking about trying it in a .54 caplock (Pedersoli Rocky Mountain which by he way is a beautifully made piece and is a fantastic shooter)  The problem with shooting caplocks is the constant wiping pushes fouling into the breech and eventually plugs the flash channel.  They don't make wads specifically for the .54 so I could use a 28 gauge wad (.560) which considering it is fibre would compress easily.  I would probably cut the .50 wad in half and see if that would work to keep the bore clean without wiping.  The use of fibre wads is such an unusual thing in rifles and from my limited  experience using wads, I am left wondering what am I missing.  Does pressure  become an issue?

Offline Daryl

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2015, 07:56:22 PM »
I experimented with card wards in the .45, .40 and the .69.  Only the .69 did not care they were there.   I used them to prevent power contamination by the oil or grease when hunting, but found through testing that the 'wad' was not necessary.  In the .45 and .40, the use of a simple card wad doubled group size. I did not test fiber wads.  Perhaps a bit more powder would have given me back the accuracy I lost using the cards, I do not know, as I did not test that far.

With the load combinations I use, there is no cause nor reason to use a wad as there NEVER is a fouling problem - EVER.  If you have a fouling problem when not using a wad, your patch is too thin. Use of a thicker, stronger patch that eliminates ALL fouling buildup, will give you the best accuracy from your rifle as well. Use of a substandard patch and a wad will not shoot as well as with gun will with the use of a proper patch alone.

  Using a load 'protection' wad to reduce fouling, is finding a fix a problem that should not be there to start with.

There will be no pressure problem generated in using the wad if your barrel is of decent quality and of proper wall thickness.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 07:32:14 PM by Daryl »
Daryl

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Offline Daryl

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2015, 07:59:17 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  I use a .490 round ball and a .015 patch in Coleraine barrel.  The rifle is an excellent shooter.  I am thinking about trying it in a .54 caplock (Pedersoli Rocky Mountain which by he way is a beautifully made piece and is a fantastic shooter)  The problem with shooting caplocks is the constant wiping pushes fouling into the breech and eventually plugs the flash channel.  They don't make wads specifically for the .54 so I could use a 28 gauge wad (.560) which considering it is fibre would compress easily.  I would probably cut the .50 wad in half and see if that would work to keep the bore clean without wiping.  The use of fibre wads is such an unusual thing in rifles and from my limited  experience using wads, I am left wondering what am I missing.  Does pressure  become an issue?

A .015" patch will not touch the bottom of the grooves in a .50 Coleraine barrel with a .490 ball. If using a .495" ball, it might, but will still not give adequate accuracy, depending on your requirements.
A .020" to .025" patch will reach the bottom of the grooves, especially with a .495" ball.
Daryl

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Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2015, 11:16:00 PM »
Listen to Daryl. With a .490 ball i'd use .018 to .020 patch. Lube it with what ever you want, shoot all day with out cleaning. Works for me.
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2015, 11:43:06 PM »
I agree on using a thicker patch for reducing fouling in the bore.  In my guns a .024" patch can still be loaded with the wood underbarrel rod and that is a requirement for every rifle I own.  At the range a special "range rod" is okay but not in the woods.  I sometimes use a felt or leather op wad.  It has often increased velocity (but not dramatically) along with shot uniformity.  Sometimes it makes no noticeable difference.

In a smoothbore I do often use a fiber wad under a bare ball and accuracy is good. 
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Offline Leatherbark

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2015, 01:26:13 PM »
With a Colerain Barrel of .50 caliber you have .532 inches of space to take up.  .490 + .015 +.015 is .520 inches.  This is assuming the bore is .500 inch of course. Lots of blowby there for sure.  In my Colerain .50 I barely get it with my .490 and .022 patching coming up shy .001 inch. 

Not having to wipe is a function of the lube.  I use a wet lube during competition.  I grease lube hunting. Even when using a grease lube the .016 round bottom rifling is very forgiving on shooting multiple shots.

Good Luck

Bob

Offline bigsmoke

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2015, 08:24:21 PM »
For my big bore rifles, I have always used a lubricated Ox Yoke cushion wad for charges over 150 grains.
20 gauge for .62 cal.;  14 gauge for .69 cal.;  12 gauge for .72 cal.; and 8 gauge for the 8 bore.  Had to cut my own for the 4 bore.
I found the following benefits:
1.  Kept patch intact.  Loads over 150 grains had disastrous effect on patches.
2.  Cleaned and lightly lubricated the bore when loading.  This helped reduce fouling, which is a big help with large loads of coarse powder.
3.  Increased muzzle velocity.

I have no idea how it works with smaller bore rifles from personal experience.  However, I have heard that 28 gauge wads have similar effects with a .54.

John

Offline Daryl

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Re: Fibre wads for muzzle loading round ball rifles
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2015, 11:32:28 PM »
The greater the powder charges, the higher the pressure and to handle that higher pressure, the tighter the combination must be to prevent blowby.

In all my tests, including those well above any sane level in powder charges, the patches retain their integrity if of substantial material (denim or linen) and thickness. The patch MUST be thick enough to cause compression of the ball in the bottom of the grooves, by the patch.

What this means, is the total of ball diameter + 2 thicknesses of patch, must EXCEED the groove to groove diameter.  At or even just a bit shy of that dimension, will give clean enough shooting to not need wiping, however the accuracy will NOT be as good as the rifle will give with an even tighter  combination.

Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V