Slotted Lugs or Not?

[JCurtiss]

Well, I've got lugs soldered to my barrel and thanks to David Rase and his nifty drill-fixture, I've got a 0.063" hole perfectly aligned through the stock and barrel lugs in all four (4) places.

So my question now is: Should I cut a slot in the lugs to allow for expansion and contraction of the wood?  And if so, what is the trick for cutting the slots?

Thanks!

Jason

[Mike Brooks]

Cut slots with jewlers saw. I do mine after the tang bolt is in so the barrel doesn't scoot forward.

[Mark Elliott]

Always cut slots to allow for 1/16" movement front and back.  The wood is constantly moving.   A hole you drill one day may not let you put a pin through the next day.   I also use a jewelers saw for this with the barrel clamped in a vise with the lugs pointing toward me.   Clean up the slot with a flat or slotting jewelers file.
 

[Robby]

Yes, slot them. I do it pretty much the same as Mr. Elliot. I have done repairs in guns that have had the lugs soldered on with no dovetail, no slots and the lugs broke the solder and pulled off by the movement of the wood.
Robby

[JCurtiss]

Yes, slot them. I do it pretty much the same as Mr. Elliot. I have done repairs in guns that have had the lugs soldered on with no dovetail, no slots and the lugs broke the solder and pulled off by the movement of the wood.
Robby

Wow; now that's surprising!

Ok, I'm definitely going to slot my lugs.

Cut slots with jewlers saw. I do mine after the tang bolt is in so the barrel doesn't scoot forward.

Presumably a jeweler's saw has a tiny blade that you can feed through the 0.063" hole in the lugs and then make up to the saw somehow?

Can you buy one of these jeweler's saws at a hardware store, or do you have to order it from a specialty tool shop or...?

Thanks again guys.

Jason

 

[L. Akers]

Some hardware stores may have them but you may have better luck at a hobby store.  Don't get a cheapy--you'll be sorry in the long run.

Just looked--you can get a saw frame and blades from Dixie, Log Cabin and Brownell's.

[PPatch]

I too use a jewelers saw for this task. You will want one like this



You should do fine with a 1/0 size blade which is also good for cutting out inlays. Best way I have found to install the blade is to clamp the back of the saw in a vice with the arms up, loosen all the wing nuts a half turn or so, put the blade in either end (tooth down, toward the handle), tighten, then do the other end of the blade and lastly put some tension on the blade while tightening the movable arm.

dave

[Dennis Glazener]

I guess I had better start slotting them but here's what puzzle's me. I have never slotted them since I have been building rifles/fowlers probably 40-50. I have not had a problem except for one that bent the cross pins and that was due to the breech area not being tight against the barrel. A few heavy shots moved the barrel back a little and bet the pins a little.

My 54 cal hunting rifle that I built back around 2003 is not slotted and the pins are straight and as far as I can tell there has been no front to rear movement.

Also I have never seen a slotted lug/tenon on any of the original rifles that I have owned or seen disassembled. Why not? Luck?
Dennis

[sqrldog]

While I also slot my lugs to allow for wood movement I'm not sure it was done on all originals. Look at the J P Beck lug in the antique guns it's not slotted. J P must have missed that memo. Tim

[hanshi]

Mostly I've never paid much attention to whether the lugs were slotted or not.  Never had any problem with the unslotted ones.  But what I did over time was to slot the straight ones (generally they came slotted) with a cutting wire on those rare occasions when I had the barrel out.  It was just a little insurance IMHO.

[Mark Elliott]

I guess I had better start slotting them but here's what puzzle's me. I have never slotted them since I have been building rifles/fowlers probably 40-50. I have not had a problem except for one that bent the cross pins and that was due to the breech area not being tight against the barrel. A few heavy shots moved the barrel back a little and bet the pins a little.

My 54 cal hunting rifle that I built back around 2003 is not slotted and the pins are straight and as far as I can tell there has been no front to rear movement.

Also I have never seen a slotted lug/tenon on any of the original rifles that I have owned or seen disassembled. Why not? Luck?
Dennis

Dennis,
 
On the rifle I am currently building,  I drilled the pin holes last week but have not slotted the holes yet as I am not keeping pins in right now.   However,  when I tried to put my safety pin (big L shaped pin) in the forward tenon a couple days later, it would hardly go in.   I didn't have that problem when drilled.  It is because the wood moved. 

[Mark Elliott]

While I also slot my lugs to allow for wood movement I'm not sure it was done on all originals. Look at the J P Beck lug in the antique guns it's not slotted. J P must have missed that memo. Tim

If they used wood that was air dried a long time,   I can understand it not being as much of an issue.   Relatively new, kiln dried wood, moves a lot.   If you buy wood for a project these days,  it is kiln dried and probably not seasoned that long.    Only my wood that is for personal projects is seasoned for years.    I suspect others are in the same situation.  

[Acer Saccharum]

I have never slotted them

If the relative humidity doesn't change in your area, you don't need to slot the lugs.

Up here in NYS, we see extremes of 90% humidity in the summer and 40% in the winter. Hot/cold/hot/cold, year upon year, and don't you think that will tire a stock out that isn't given some breathing room!   

[rsells]

I am like Mark.  I started a new build last week and got down to drilling the stock and underlugs and installed them mid week.  Yesterday,  I checked the alignment of the holes and I had to slot the front three to get them to assemble.  In my part of the world (TN) it seems to be an issue.  I slot the lugs for movement due to humidity and temp changes of the barrel when shooting.  With the use of longer barrels 44, 46, and 48 inch the issue shows up on every rifle I make now.  Just another process I have to work through during the build.  I don't enjoy the work, but it has to be done. 
                                                                                     Roger Sells

[Mark Elliott]

I have never slotted them

If the relative humidity doesn't change in your area, you don't need to slot the lugs.

Up here in NYS, we see extremes of 90% humidity in the summer and 40% in the winter. Hot/cold/hot/cold, year upon year, and don't you think that will tire a stock out that isn't given some breathing room!   

The humidity in my office right now is 34%.   It was 50% last week, and 60% a couple weeks ago.    The humidity goes to 100% during a thunderstorm on the swamp in the Summer.    I run the de-humidifier continuously along with the AC in the shop in the Summer to keep the humidity down to 60%.     Location, Location, Location   

[Dphariss]

Where I live its unsafe to start on a piece of wood unless its let dry hopefully for several months. Dave Rase cut a barrel channel for me and by the time he shipped it it was nearly a "C" profile cut. After a month back here the barrel would not go in. It had been here for several months before it went out to the West Coast.  But the humidity here can go single digits in summer out on the plains and is 20% in the house right now and its "winter" humidity outside 43 degrees and 41%. Bring a stock from a 80-90% area here, fit it right away and it will move and fits will be lost or parts will be "stuck". Depending. Wood will move for quite some time after its down to what the kiln dries it to. It takes more time to "normalize" than to dry.
So buy wood ahead of time and let it "rest" especially after sawing to rough shape if you live in a dryer or wetter area than it came from.
Dan

[PPatch]

Wood moves constantly with seasonal and environmental changes, a very well understood fact. Slotting your barrel lugs is smart insurance to minimize potential problems. For me it is just one of the steps in a build.

dave

[Dave R]

Many years ago I had a local builder build me a .32 full length stock rifle with 42" 13/16" barrel, He did NOT slot the under lugs and a couple years after i received it my father and I were out shooting in the winter and noticed it shot exceptionally low!! after further inspection the wood shrunk and barrel was bent downward, Removing the barrel and slotting the under lugs and straightening the barrel took care of the problem.TRUE STORY!!

[JCurtiss]

For all you slotters out there, don't forget to cut the slots in the stock a 0.063" longer, fore and aft, as well as the lugs.

[Acer Saccharum]

For all you slotters out there, don't forget to cut the slots in the stock a 0.063" longer, fore and aft, as well as the lugs.

You only slot the lugs, no need to slot the stock.

If don't slot either, over time the pin holes in the stock may elongate fore and aft.

[JCurtiss]

For all you slotters out there, don't forget to cut the slots in the stock a 0.063" longer, fore and aft, as well as the lugs.

You only slot the lugs, no need to slot the stock.

If don't slot either, over time the pin holes in the stock may elongate fore and aft.

If you are concerned about stock "movement" reacting against  the barrel and decreasing shooting accuracy, you should also slot the stock.

[Daryl]

I hadn't thought much about it before, but the difference in overall barrel length between winter freezing temps and summer heat, is quite striking.  This alone should be cause for elongating holes a tich.

For example and this should show some evidence of what I speak, the quarter-rib on a #1 Ruger binds if the gun is fired until the barrel is hot, just one of the reasons for them needing accuracy help.

This elongation from cool to too hot was written up in PS magazine as being upwards of .007".  I have never measured one.

This makes me wonder just how much elongation there is between the tang screw and front pin on a longrifle's barrel, with the gun sitting in the summer sun or being shot hot during that time of year, or worse maybe, during the winter time?

[smylee grouch]

I am curious of how long your slots have to be in the underlug. I would think that if only your underlug is sloted, it should take care of any problem that a "growing or creeping stock or barrel" causes. I don't know therefore I ask. I have several half stock guns that are not slotted and haven't had any problems with them in all sorts of weather conditions but all my full stock guns are slotted.

[Nate McKenzie]

You must have an awfully thick forestock if it can bend your barrel.

[Mike Brooks]

For all you slotters out there, don't forget to cut the slots in the stock a 0.063" longer, fore and aft, as well as the lugs.

You only slot the lugs, no need to slot the stock.

If don't slot either, over time the pin holes in the stock may elongate fore and aft.

If you are concerned about stock "movement" reacting against  the barrel and decreasing shooting accuracy, you should also slot the stock.

Not exactly. You don't slot the pin holes in the stock, but you do have to give the lug room to move....actually it's more the stock that grows and shrinks so you have to make sure to leave a bit of space at the ends of the lug.