Question regarding barrel on my first GPR

[Bbell]

First post here. Been lurking and reading a ton. I started a gpr a while back and came to a point where I need some advice. I thought I was almost done inletting my barrel and tang but noticed that the lock side of the barrel it is raised out of the stock more than on the other side. Like it is tilted. It is more obvious at the end of the end of the stock. When inletting, the lock side doesnt show marks where the barrel is touching. When shouldered it seems level but not sure if I am compensating for any angle there. The tang seems level in the stock but wondering if I got it canted in there. The barrel seems to sit fine when the tang is removed. Any ideas how to proceed from here? I can put pics up tonight. Thanks for any ideas
Brandon

[JCurtiss]

Yes, pictures would certainly be helpful.  But when you say the barrel "sits fine" with the tang is removed, I assume that to mean level. And if so, it sounds as if your inlet for the tang is out of kilter.

Having said that, pictures will entice comments from the collective brain.

[andy49]

I use a square, all during the barrel inlay process, to make sure the top barrel flat and (rough) lock panel are square. It is easy to get this out of square and I adjust the inlay to keep things square so the lock bolster mates with the barrel squarely.
Andy

[FALout]

On hawken style rifles, I found that lightly soldering the tang to the breach plug, helps the inletting procedure go better, when done, you just heat the joint till you can separate the tang and then clean the solder off both parts.  I like to leave them soldered till I get the lock inletted and the the trigger group in and drilled/tapped.  You can easily get a sliver of wood in the joint that may not be letting the barrel sit correctly.

[Bbell]

[Bbell]

So I took these pics and then started to mess with it a bit. I got the square out and used that for reference. That was a huge help. I really focused on the barrel to tang being aligned and placing the barrel. This next pic should show it well on what I think I need to do. With the tang in this position the barrel sits very nicely and the square seems to confirm. I am going to take the above suggestion and solder the tang on so that I can be consistent. Should heat the tang to bend it or just take it easy on it? Am I on the right track?
Brandon

[Old Ford2]

Hi
Soldering works, but can be tricky to get that much metal heated enough to get the solder to take.
If you JB weld ( epoxy ) the tang to the barrel it removes later with heat and a little scraping.

Just a side note:  Soldering heavy thick steel is not terribly hard for the experienced, and with good flux, but can be difficult with over the counter propane torch and Walmart solder. Epoxy is for idiots Like me! And very easy to clean up.
Fred

[Acer Saccharum]

Although the tang looks high, I'd not bend it until the barrel and tang assembly are fully seated. You may find its only a little high, and you can either file the top of the tang surface to meet the wood, or bend the tang just a little.

It's hard to tell how much the tang has to go down from the photo. If it has to be bent a lot, a little gap can open at the end after you bend it.

It would help in your decision to look at how far the barrel has to go down before fully seated.

[JB2]

follow the advice here, and get the tang and barrel attached solidly together and straight(solder or epoxy).  Then, you'll need some sort of transfer or marking material.  Soot from a candle, or a wide sharpee or dry erase marker will work too.  Color up the bottom and sides of the barrel and the tang, and lightly press the barrel/tang into the stock.  Take out the barrel and look for bright spots on the metal parts, and/or transfer marks on the stock.  this will show you the interference areas.  Then start removing wood in the areas that are touching, until all the wood has black marks on it.  sounds too simple, but start really slow, and make sure you're actually removing wood from the right spots.  That's the hard part for me.

[JB2]

oh, and BTW.  There is a "Hawken stuff" thread by Taylor on here too.  About halfway down on the first page he talks about using lipstick as transfer material, while inletting his barrel and tang.  The process he's using to inlet the barrel and tang is exactly the same process that you'll be using.  His pictures will be very helpful;)

[oldtravler61]

One other tip. Is make sure you pull the barrel straight up. Don't pull from muzzel to breach. Cause it will give you false marks. Where to remove wood.imho

[Daryl]

Another note about tang shape itself. Seems to me the GPR's do not start the tang bend soon enough behind the bolster, but usually have a straight section behind the bolster- looks incorrect to my eye.

[Bbell]

Thank you so much guys! I will check out that other thread. Might be a couple days before I have a chance to work on it again. I will get it epoxied today though and look at it. I really like this forum. So much good info here.
Brandon

[longcruise]

Of the 3 1/2 GPRs I've put together, the breech areas were not an inletting problem so much as a fill problem.  When the folks here got me onto connecting the hook to the tang it went much better.  The range are hard to bend correctly because they are weak at the points where the holes are drilled.

These kits are perceived to be easy because so much is done for you.  NOT!   Much of what is done for you is overdone or out of place.  You really do need to think through that entire breach, tang and lock area and visualize it sort of as one piece.

Keep us posted on progress.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Brandon:  first welcome to the ALR!  Nowhere better to be.

I rebuilt a GPR flinter for a friend, though it was not a kit but a finished rifle I started with.  Nonetheless, there are solme idiosyncrasies of this rifle that lend themselves to custom work, and in my eye, a great improvement.  You are working now on one of those.



The standing breech - that part of the tang that is screwed permanently to the stock, and from which the barrel lifts away, has two negative things.  First, the sides of the tang are filed off creating two narrow facets that do absolutely nothing to improve the architecture of the rifle.  And second, and something my observant brother alluded to, is the factory tang has a straight section aft of the break-off, before it starts to curve downward.  In the picture above, I have bent the tang down gently, immediately behind the vertical part, to start the tang's decent into the wrist immediately at the breech of the barrel.  Failing to do this will give you a stock profile that is unattractively thick right behind the barrel.  Now, since you've bent the tang down a little, you must also straighten out the tang where it IS bent, so that it is the correct length to fill the inlet.  Now, attach the tang to the breech of the barrel, so you can inlet the two as a unit.  This will take you a little deeper into the wood, and at the same time give you the opportunity to file away those two little bevels they had on the stock tang.



I wish I had better pictures to illustrate these concepts...this is all I have.

Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions.

[Bbell]

I put some jb weld on today and got to staring at that tang. I was going to leave it as is but now seeing where it is bent and the bevels is starting to bug me. :-) might as well do it right the first time. Should I heat it up and take it off or do you think that it could be bent while jb'd to the breech?
Brandon

[flinchrocket]

I wouldn't worry about bending the tang until after you get the barrel in the stock square, then take care
of the tang.

[Daryl]

Brandon - when pictures appear too small to see what is alluded to, holding down the Ctrl button and pushing the =+ button  will enlarge the picture.  Repeatedly pushing the + button enlarges the picture to maximum size. Pushing the -_ button will decrease the size of the picture. Als0 once full size, holding the Crtl button down and pushing the 0 (zero) button will return your screen to normal size, form any previous size you have been using.  I do not know if this works on MAC computers - probably not although they may have some other method (most likely superior in MAC owner eyes) of doing this.

[Bbell]

Well I got the barrel situated. Much better fit. So I am working on bending the tang. Here is a pic of it after some bending. I put it in the vice to straighten the bend. Then I placed the tang in the vice and hammered to put the bend as close to the breech as I could. I think I might have done to much. I still need to file the top as well. To me it looks like I might have put the bend back where it was and then make it worse. :-)
Let me know what you think. Daryl I am posting with an iPhone so I am not sure how to make them bigger. Will see what I can do.

[JB2]

This might help you get the bend where you want it.  Don't have to do it exactly like this, but something similar really helps getting the bend where you want it, instead of where the part wants to bend. 

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=13420.msg126197#msg126197