Engraving Transfers Question

[Ric27]

I have recently learned about transferring artwork for engraving using lazier copies and acetone. I have gotten inconsistent results. Some of my transfers have been very good but usually they are fair to poor. Some complete but very faint others strong but patchy or any combination of those problems

I am using brass practice plates that I have sanded down to about smooth 320, cleaned at different times with acetone, Windex, alcohol. I am taping the transfer to the plate to keep it flat, applying the acetone with a Q-tip then rubbing lightly to insure even contact. I have done this many dozens of times and don't seem to be making any headway. I have a Brothers copier that makes a good looking print. Does the type of paper make difference? 

Any help would be appreciated!
Ric       

[smart dog]

Hi Ric,
Try rubbing much harder and see if that helps.  Use a flat but hard burnisher rather than something like a pencil eraser. 

dave

[Mike Brooks]

I have heard and seen this method before. I find it easier and faster just to draw out the design and cut it.

[J Henry]

  It's the copier!!!!  Laser jet don't work!! You need one of the old type printers,,Ink jet style.Laser doesn't put the medium on the paper that the acetone transfers to the work from the paper...Try tracing the picture to paper, using Carbon paper,then apply the copy made with the carbon paper.You have paper with the carbon picture on it.Don't use the carbon paper it will transfer the entire carbon,you use just the paper you traced the picture on to.
 Finger nail polish is another form of Acetone,different levels of Acetone in them
   Another thing I found out,,it the item is to smooth,there is no "tooth" and the transfer doesn't stick/transfer and remove the transfer paper before the acetone dries,or the picture will stay on the paper and lift off.Found all of this by doing it myself..
 So copy the picture on paper using carbon paper,apply acetone to the paper after you place it on the item, remove the paper before it dries.
  Or get an old school Ink jet printer,if you can find one ,,,,  been there/ am there /doing that.

[Pete G.]

I agree with Mike B. You can apply a drawing on a complex 3 dimensional surface much better than it can be transferred from a 2 dimensional representation.  

[Gaeckle]

By using a fine tip marker (get 'em at art supply stores or office supply places) you can endlessly doodle just about any pattern or design that enters your mind......if you don't like it simply wipe it off with 320 grit sandpaper ( or a .grit) and start all over......super simple.

Helps a lot to practice simple lines, shapes, scrolls, swirls, doing a lot of doodling on paper pads helps a lot.

[Ric27]

I have heard and seen this method before. I find it easier and faster just to draw out the design and cut it.

Yes, if only I could do that.

[Acer Saccharum]

For laser printers, try a very thin coat of Damar varnish on the metal. Just a drop, and spread it with your finger tip. When it's tacky, lay your transfer down, and try as you have been doing.

There are various 'transfer liquid' preparations on the market.

The printer, and the type of toner, all affect the end result.

Try a little more acetone, but not so much that the ink bleeds into the paper. The acetone softens the ink, which is really fused plastic powder, and allows it to be pressed onto the metal. The Damar receives the toner better than bare metal, in my experience.

I have had lots of trouble with getting good transfers, and have not hit on a fool proof method yet.

I do my own art, but like to use the computer to scan, mirror image and scale it up or down for engraving.

[Acer Saccharum]

All through the ages, engravers generally reproduced artwork. Most engravers were not artists. There are exceptions, such as Durer, but largely engravers worked off patterns.

Don't feel like you're alone if drawing gives you a hard time. It's very common.

Getting your patterns onto the metal is crucial. Whether it be a high tech(laser print transfers) or low tech(Chinese white and pencil), one needs to get this aspect under control.

[Ric27]

  It's the copier!!!!  Laser jet don't work!! You need one of the old type printers,,Ink jet style.Laser doesn't put the medium on the paper that the acetone transfers to the work from the paper..
  Or get an old school Ink jet printer,if you can find one ,,,,  been there/ am there /doing that.

Well this is quite informative. I have an ink jet printer on my desk and that is what I have been using to make my masters with. Well I tried it {(transferring the ink jet print) Walha!!!! it works great!! The funny thing is I had been told by some that it seemed should know that it wouldn't work with ink jet only laser printers. #$!

As usual I am glad I post my question here.

Ric

[Ric27]

All through the ages, engravers generally reproduced artwork. Most engravers were not artists. There are exceptions, such as Durer, but largely engravers worked off patterns.

Don't feel like you're alone if drawing gives you a hard time. It's very common.

Getting your patterns onto the metal is crucial. Whether it be a high tech(laser print transfers) or low tech(Chinese white and pencil), one needs to get this aspect under control.

Thank You!
R

[J Henry]

 Ink jet yes Laser printer no,,You original posting reads Laser  
   What make/model Ink Jet printer are you using,,I need a new one,,,  
         If you did it and it worked  !!!!! got to go with what works,,,
  I would draw to ,,  if I could,,but then again I always wanted to fly like an Eagle.So I set and Draw hangman and stick figures 

[Ric27]

Ink jet yes Laser printer no,,You original posting reads Laser  
   What make/model Ink Jet printer are you using,,I need a new one,,,  
         If you did it and it worked  !!!!! got to go with what works,,,
  I would draw to ,,  if I could,,but then again I always wanted to fly like an Eagle.So I set and Draw hangman and stick figures 

Yes, I have a Epson XP-600 all in one copy, scan, print + print on CD capability. It is a decent printer and is fairly new. You should be able to find one or similar Model. I got this one because I need to print on CD.

Yes I did say Laser in my original post. I would print out on the ink jet and then use the laser to make a copy to transfer. Like I said, I was told that only laser would work. Well now I know different.

Thanks Henry
ric  

[J Henry]

 Sweet,, going to town and find a printer, Monday !!

[JTR]

Click on this website; http://www.twdesignshone.com/ Scroll down to the Transfer Magic solution and buy a bottle.
Problem solved quick and easy!

John

[T*O*F]

Click on this website; http://www.twdesignshone.com/ Scroll down to the Transfer Magic solution and buy a bottle.  Problem solved quick and easy!

I agree, however:
a.  Don't get the opaque stuff, get the clear.

2.  Get the transfer films as well.  They are foolproof and can be used for multiple transfers.

III. You need an inkjet printer that uses pigment based ink, not dye based ink.  The HP Deskjet 1000 is such a unit and can usually be found for around $20.  I ordered mine from Walmart and had it shipped to the store for pickup, thus saving postage as well.  Any printer using HP61 cartridges will work.

[L. Akers]

I tried the printer/acetone without much luck so went back to Lynton Mckinzie's wax method.  I make a transfer wax from either beeswax or original Simoize with a dab of toilet ring wax melted in for a bit more stickiness.  Rub your finger on the wax and dap it on the area to be engraved.  The transfer is made by drawing or tracing a pattern onto the frosty side of a piece of drafting vellum with a soft lead pencil.  Lay the frosty side down over the waxed area and rub the back side of the vellum with a dull pencil or an orange stick to transfer the design.  The design will stick in the wax.  Be aware the pattern will be reversed from what was drawn on the vellum.  A down side to this method is that the transferred design will smear easily.

[Tim Crosby]

 Take a look at this, Thanks Jim.

 http://www.jimkibler.net/blog/finally-finished

   Tim C.

[Mark Elliott]

Being able to do a transfer is great, but learning to draw the designs is easier in the end.    I do a study sketch from original work and then I work from that to draw the design on the work piece.   There is constant change and evolution.   That is art!    No true artist wants to copy someone else.  There is also the benefit of understanding the design better if you draw it yourself.    That way there is more evolution and less devolution.    Just my two cents.  
  

[J Henry]

  I agree with Mark and with a ruler with the inches marked on it   I can get a fair representation of a 4" square,, don't check the 90 degree corners...

[Tim Crosby]

   No true artist wants to copy someone else.    
  

 And you don't think that is happening here?

   Tim C.

[Mark Elliott]

   No true artist wants to copy someone else.    
  

 And you don't think that is happening here?

   Tim C.

I don't know if it is happening or not.  Only the builder know his or her intent.   I just know that I don't try to copy exactly.    Copy vaguely, yes.  Copy exactly, no.   Consequently,   hand drawn designs are good enough for me.   If I were doing really fancy production work and wanted to copy parts of my own designs, that is another matter entirely for me.   

[David Rase]

   No true artist wants to copy someone else.    
  

 And you don't think that is happening here?

   Tim C.

Tim,
I agree with your statement.  We are all guilty of copying.  The way I see it, we copy in one of two ways.  The first and most obvious copying method is transfer of an original design.  The second way we copy, and not as obvious, is when we draw something freehand.  How can that be you ask?  Freehand drawing is just our mind recalling elements of original designs we have cataloged in our head.  The more originals we study, the bigger the catalog to copy from.  Either way we are putting a design down that we have seen somewhere in the past.
David

[David Rase]

Oops, got so busy stirring the pot that I forgot to mention that you can go to a Michael's craft store or similar establishment and buy a Prismacolor® Premier® Art Marker in 40% warm grey (PM-102) in lieu of the transfer magic sold by TW Designs.  Works just as well as the transfer magic and is only about $6.00 instead of $35.00.
David 

[Mark Elliott]

   No true artist wants to copy someone else.    
  

 And you don't think that is happening here?

   Tim C.

Tim,
I agree with your statement.  We are all guilty of copying.  The way I see it, we copy in one of two ways.  The first and most obvious copying method is transfer of an original design.  The second way we copy, and not as obvious, is when we draw something freehand.  How can that be you ask?  Freehand drawing is just our mind recalling elements of original designs we have cataloged in our head.  The more originals we study, the bigger the catalog to copy from.  Either way we are putting a design down that we have seen somewhere in the past.
David

In art, it is true that everyone copies what came before, but there are different degrees of copying.   The art comes in how much you copy and how you combine elements that came before.    My only problem is trying to exactly copy someone else's work, except as an exercise.    I wouldn't think this would be all that controversial a position.   It is what I was always taught.