So, what is it?

[JTR]

I'm posting these pictures for a friend, and below is what he says about it;

This unusual MYSTERY GUN has a completely screwless detachable flintlock of unique design. The 46” .40 cal round barrel is attached to the figured hardwood stock with silver bands as seen on North African “camel guns". The hand forged lock is assembled with rivets and pins, and is attached to the stock by a tail hook slipped into a staple and a sliding brass band over a “rat tail” front extension. A crude aluminum band holding the breech to the stock is presumed to be a later replacement. It weighs just under 5 1/2 lbs.  Where is it from?  What culture does it represent?

Some of you will know about this and might be able to fill me in on details. When enough time has elapsed to allow responses, I’ll post what I know about it. 

Bill Paton

[grouchy]

Vietnamese   ned

[Longknife]

Is there a way to attach a flint? If not I would say it was made for the tourist trade....don't know where... 

[grouchy]

The one I saw appeared to be a matchlock  ned

[Mike Brooks]

I saw several of these when I worked for Rock Island Auction. I figured them to be Vietnamese also.

[JTR]

Mike, Flintlock or Matchlock?
John

[Mike Brooks]

Not really sure. I have seen them where they some how use a kitchen match for ignition....don't recall exactly how that was supposed to work. I have seen them bored to take a 9mm pistol cartridge full of cement for a projectile also.
Always been guns with a lot of mystery surrounding them. Not any info out there on them, but all of a similar pattern and "feel".
 I have talked to several Nam vets that brought them home from in country. I have had the feeling that some of these could be quite old and some rather recently made.

[PPatch]

Southeast asia was the first thing that popped into my head also.

dave

[dogcatcher]

My guess would be Filipino made, the Filipinos were pretty resourceful during the Japanese occupation for making and converting "stuff" into weapons to fight the Japanese.  But so were a lot of the other people of that era in that part of the world. 

Second guess, someone broke the stock and made a "long barreled pistola" because they did not need to fix the broken stock on the rifle.   Or did not have the capability to fix it. 

It also reminds me of the M1 Carbines that a few of the chopper door gunners made into side arms during the Vietnam war.   I saw about 5 during my tour, and met a guy later in life that told me he carried one, but his was a M2 not an M1. 

[DFHicks]

This looks like the firearm used by the Hmong or Meo tribal people in Laos.  Due to the war many became refugees living around towns.  These weapons as well as daggers and short swords could be seen for sale in shops where I guess they sold them or traded for provisions.  The guns were a bit too long to easily ship home so I don't have one.  As noted the mechanism is external and has no screws. Instead everything is bradded (spelling??) together.  The flint is bound on the cock with string and some sort of resin.  There is no top jaw.  In addition to Laos I believe the Meo lived in the mountains of several SE Asian countries including Viet Nam.  I once saw an illustration plate in a late 1800's book that showed a man with something like this one and it had the pistol stock and matchlock ignition.  The location was given as Southern China.  So these were probably once used in a very large area.
Greg

[Bill Paton]

ANSWER TIME!
       Nedschimmel was 1st to correctly answer Vietnam.
       Mike Brooks and Greg posted the best answers.
       MrNoGold sent an excellent email with additional detailed information.
       Other info came from Google--"Vietnamese flint lock” 

The gun is from the mountain tribes of Viet Nam, Laos, and Cambodia called “Montagnard” by the French (meaning “Mountain People”). The Hmong, Degar, and other tribes were included in the French term. They tended to help the American cause during the Vietnam War.

Mine was flintlock. The flints were held in the forged jaws by a resin and string wrap. Some were used as snapping match locks, but the mainspring on mine is very strong and hard to cock, and there are resin remnants in the jaw, so I think mine was used as a flintlock. One report noted that sometimes kitchen matches were used for ignition. The lower jaw arrests on the back on the pan and could set off a strike-anywhere match if a match head were set in the correct spot. One source called this type a “monkey gun”.

Some GI’s were reported to have been shot with these guns, with 9mm pistol cases
filled with cement being used as projectiles.

I think the guns were designed and made by mountain blacksmiths who saw European flint locks and used the idea to build what they could on that principle. The French came into the area (certainly with flintlocks) in the early to mid 1800’s, and one source reported the guns were made from about 1850 to about 1950. Early ones had bands made from pounded out silver French coins. Later ones had brass and/or aluminum bands. Mine has mostly silver, with one brass and one aluminum band. As mentioned above, some were still in use during the Vietnam conflict. Vets reported seeing them for sale in markets during the Vietnam war.

Thanks to all who played the game and offered more insight into this interesting and unusual primitive firearm. Thanks to JTR for posting the original photos. That process is still beyond me.

Bill Paton

[grouchy]

COOL! Whaddiwin? Just kidding, I enjoyed see the pics. ned