Author Topic: Real or replica?  (Read 15334 times)

Offline Mike Brooks

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Real or replica?
« on: December 20, 2015, 05:57:02 PM »
I have just read the term "replica" on a thread. I was wondering, do you guys build replicas or real guns? I always thought my guns are real.
 Apply this to say, a modern bolt action rifle. When you make one is it a replica?
Tomato, Tomatoe? Sort of disturbing.....
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline crankshaft

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2015, 06:25:31 PM »
   
Mornin'.

 My guess is an exact reproduction from an original  is a replica.  Deviations make it not ? ?

Boompa

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2015, 06:30:13 PM »
   I've never thought of any of my guns as replicas, they are made to use, shoot and hunt with. Some build rifles that allow them freedom in style, perhaps combining features from different makers. Most build rifles within a general style or "school" and some try to replicate a specific, original rifle. Nothing wrong with any of it.

JCurtiss

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2015, 06:31:48 PM »
You build a "real" functional gun that "replicates" the style of a particular gun.

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2015, 06:33:32 PM »
The term replica indicated something that's not real, not functional.  Like a replica bow and arrow set you buy at a western art store.  Nice to look at, and decorate with, but not a functional piece.
Maybe "re-creation" would be a better term?
All I know is that I don't want to stare down the barrel of one of these replicas!
In His grip,

Dane

Offline WadePatton

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2015, 06:58:16 PM »
Yes, "replica" brings with it the connotation of "souvenir" which tends to be a generally useless article beyond decoration or child's play.  A gadget designed to turn a profit and nothing much else.

How do we differentiate the great guns (and accoutrements) made now- in the styles of the technological past without making them sound less than well-made, fully functional arms?

The term replica does make me think of toy guns and much of the dangerous junk from other parts of the world.

Is there a better term or do we just get used to explaining this one?  

Must we continue to explain that replicas can be better and more functional that the original items they represent. Of course that is the norm for this bunch.  

gives it some thought and research:

I think the furniture guys use the term "Reproduction" for styles and copies of the past.  I do like that better at this point.   8)

I'll leave that wide open for Mike to do the punnery. :P
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 07:05:14 PM by WadePatton »
Hold to the Wind

DFHicks

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2015, 07:34:28 PM »
 I agree with small patch _ the term "recreation" seems to be more accurate for the fine rifles being built by so many outstanding artisans today.  I think the "creation" part of the word is important.  The few I have put together as a hobby are not in that group and really don't need a term.  Once again I'd like to express my appreciation for the answers and advice these artisans so freely share on this forum.
Greg

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2015, 07:40:23 PM »
Good question, Mike. Always probing, he is.

It is great mental exercise to examine why you do something, what your intentions are in making something. I find that I change over the years, each and every project affects what I believe about what I do. It's good to take inventory every so often.

I make real guns.
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline iloco

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2015, 07:45:27 PM »
I have a nice fowler that Mike built.  I consider it a real gun.   Same as my other rifles.
iloco

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2015, 08:18:05 PM »
I have never considered the guns that come from my bench as replicas...they are originals.  Most EMULATE firearms from history, and all are inspired by historical work.  The word "replica" is less than inadequate - it is mis-representative.

Here's another one...about 11 years ago I sought to actually re-open a business making muzzle loading firearms.  The rules have changed since I closed Taylor Made Guns in the early 80's.  Yes I had the name before the golf mogul.  In those days, a representative of the Firearms Office in Victoria came to my shop and inspected and signed my books. It was usually a retired Mountie, sometimes a man I had worked with in that other life.  Now, a federal license is required.  There is no category for an artisan gunmaker...only a MANUFACTURER.  This word invokes images of a factory with many workers running conveyor belts.  And the annual license fee reflects that image.  Obviously, I am not a manufacturer, so I returned to my grass roots, and am a hobby artisan again.

And here's another...when I first made a muzzle loading pistol, it required registration papers.  I stamped the required 5 digit serial number on the bottom flat of the barrel - DTS-01.  The little green registration came back and it read "Homemade".  But what that first effort started was a file on me as a 'manufacturer', so now when I register them, that area of the form says "Sapergia".  Call it progress if you like. 
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2015, 08:35:53 PM »
The term "replica" is not one I would ever use.  "Replicas" are illegal in some places. All of my creations are originals. Back in the day when we had to register percussion guns   ::) [ but not flintlocks ]  I stamped everyone with "001 "  just to make things as confusing as possible for the Registry ;D 

Thom

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2015, 08:51:10 PM »
I tend to agree with Wade. The term replica leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think of a replica as a stage gun or a novelty.

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2015, 09:57:26 PM »
I build "recreations".

Horner75

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2015, 10:23:02 PM »
Contemporary Recreation

Offline David Rase

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2015, 11:21:28 PM »
All the guns I build originate from my shop, therefore, I consider them originals.  I am just carrying on the craft our forefathers and those craftsmen before us indulged in.
David

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2015, 11:23:47 PM »
I always seen replica guns as non functional versions of originals.More so modern guns,using some original parts on a dummy receiver or reproduction parts to produce a replica.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2015, 12:03:28 AM »
HHHMMMMMM. Mental gymnastics. Unfortunately my brain is the only part of my body that can do any sort of Gymnastics these days. ::) Words mean things, and they are important. The oldtimers built flint lock rifles, we build flint lock rifles, the only difference is ours are newly made and theirs are now old. When an old timey apprentice copied the masters work was he making a replica? Did someone come into the original Dickert shop and say to the apprentice "Hey, nice Dickert replica there sport."......I don't think so. If you built a rifle in the style of Dickert today it is not a Dickert rifle as Dickert didn't make it, it is a rifle newly made in the style of Dickert but it isn't a replica as it is real.
When you make a powder horn it's not a "replica" it IS a POWDER HORN.
When you make a knife, it IS A KNIFE, not a "replica" of a knife.

Let's say Acer builds a gun and i think it's really cool so I build one just like it. Would mine be a replica of a replica? What if mine were better (highly probable  ;D) and somebody built one just like it. Would it be a replica of a replica of a replica?

It's going to be a long winter..... :P
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline longcruise

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 01:05:53 AM »
What about the term "bench copy" where does that fit in?
Mike Lee

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2015, 01:34:13 AM »
What about the term "bench copy" where does that fit in?
I'm not even sure what that is. Can you only make a "bench copy" if you have the old gun on the bench? Will it be exactly the same,  even in minutia?
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2015, 01:40:45 AM »
What if mine were better (highly probable  ;D)


I just pooped my pants.
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Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2015, 01:46:31 AM »
This is a little like a bunch of guys:

1) sitting around the potbelly stove in the trading post, defining trapping terminology.
2) wheeling around the lounge in the home, explaining muscle cars to the ladies
3) all of the above.

We should go to the definition of the word before we make up its use.

Replica:
Quote
A replica is an exact reproduction, such as of a painting, as it was executed by the original artist or a copy or reproduction, especially one on a scale smaller than the original.

In the above context, "bench copy" is interchangeable with 'Replica'. Bench copy implies a little more clout in the customer's mind, since the builder presumably had the original gun on his/her bench to work from.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 01:48:35 AM by Acer Saccharum »
Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline Mike Brooks

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2015, 01:55:40 AM »
What if mine were better (highly probable  ;D)


I just pooped my pants.
Now that's where I really excel! ;D

Quote
n the above context, "bench copy" is interchangeable with 'Replica'. Bench copy implies a little more clout in the customer's mind, since the builder presumably had the original gun on his/her bench to work from.
Oh, I don't know. I have had an old gun at hand when I'm building and it ends up just being more of an inspiration than anything else. What I end up with isn't what the old one was. I probably don't have enough talent to build a "replica".......Oh my..... :-[
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 01:59:11 AM by Mike Brooks »
NEW WEBSITE! www.mikebrooksflintlocks.com
Say, any of you boys smithies? Or, if not smithies per se, were you otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts before straitened circumstances forced you into a life of aimless wanderin'?

Offline Acer Saccharum

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2015, 01:59:32 AM »
A contemporary made flintlock arm can be BOTH a replica and a real gun.

Tom Curran's web site : http://monstermachineshop.net
Ramrod scrapers are all sold out.

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2015, 02:34:59 AM »
Ok here's another view. When looking at signed an unsigned guns of the past. We attribute one (unsigned) as probably built by. What if back then, someone let say saw a Dickert  An said hey I like that guys gun. So I will go back home,  trade for a few parts an make my own. Or have the builder in my area build one. Using the best of his memory to do it?  With a little variation  No way never happened right!

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Real or replica?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2015, 02:45:59 AM »
I have just read the term "replica" on a thread. I was wondering, do you guys build replicas or real guns? I always thought my guns are real.
 Apply this to say, a modern bolt action rifle. When you make one is it a replica?
Tomato, Tomatoe? Sort of disturbing.....

replica |ˈrepləkə|
noun
an exact copy or model of something, especially one on a smaller scale: a replica of the Empire State Building.
• a duplicate of an original artistic work.
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine