54 or 58

[410-er]

SLOWLY I'm selling off some lymans and TC's to get another custom.I have a Jacob Dickert flinter 45cal built by Neil Panzerell about 30yrs ago.
Now I'd like either a 54 or 58 in a custom flinter.Have molds for both calibers.(.530,.535,.570,.575)
Not sure and looking for pros and cons.

[sz]

Well the 58 is bigger............so the 54 is smaller.

(There...now you know everything)
 

[oldtravler61]

Going to get flack for this. But to me I like a 54. Seems the 58 loads alittle harder,uses a little more lead an heckl doesn't kill em any deader than a 54 an it doesn't bite the shoulder so much. Imo But it's your gun an your the one using it so it really is your choice.

[smylee grouch]

You might want to consider what you will be doing with the gun. A 58 might have an edge when it comes to hunting or longer range shooting. The 58 is my choice of those two.

[moleeyes36]

Smylee Grouch is right on when he says you want to consider what you will be doing with the gun.  A .54 might be a better choice for punching paper or hunting things like white tailed deer.  If you will be hunting critters bigger than that or doing a lot of woods walks, the .58 would be worth considering as your first choice.  I've owned a number of .54's over the years and am partial to them, but I've got to admit that I've never owned a .58 (other than a Civil War era rifle).  However, I've got a friend that primarily shoots a .58 and he wouldn't consider going back to a smaller caliber.  He considers a .54 to be a small game rifle  .

Mole Eyes 

[gumboman]

If you intend to hunt with the gun and plan on using round balls then you will prefer the 58 for effectiveness on making fast humane kills. I have taken deer with calibers from 50 to 62. I much prefer the larger calibers for knock down power and shorter tracking jobs when using balls.

Two of my 50 caliber rifles have fast twist barrels that shoot bullets. They are extremely effective using 350 grain elongated bullets. These will drop whitetail deer in their tracks. Plus the effective range is much farther with the bullets when compared to round balls.

Much depends on the individual. If one is sensitive to recoil the smaller calibers are preferred. I have used up to 200 grains in my 62 without any adverse effects from the recoil.

My next rifle build will be a 62 caliber Issac Haines with flintlock ignition. I have the barrel and wood blank now and only have to finish my current build project before starting it. I like the 62 using round balls the best. In my view that is the ideal caliber for hunting North American game.

But that is just my preference. Other opinions will vary.

[oldtravler61]

Must be nasty small game with an attitude. Shot deer an, elk an a bear with a 54 an 45s an my friend shot a moose with his 54 . Might have been undergunned. But they were all dead with in 50-70 yards. To me it's shot placement an what yeah like to shoot. But if your not sure own both. The 54 for squirrels an the 58 for grizzly.

[rsells]

I have killed deer with both the .54 and .58 at relatively long yardages in the woods in my part of the country.  The .54 killed a nice buck at 90 paces and the .58 killed another nice buck at 92 paces.  The deer killed with the .54 took about 4 steps and the deer killed with the .58 fell in its tracks.  I think the .58 has more power, but I had to allow more for ball drop than with the .54.  I am a big .54 cal fan, especially in my part of the country.  It just shoots flatter.  Dead is dead, but you still have to hit the right area to not have to spend time tracking down the deer.  I am comfortable using both rifles to hunt, but I know where the ball is at from 10 to 125 yards.  I live in TN and most of the deer I have killed were within bow range.  Shots over 100 yards is unusual  because of the type of woods I hunt.  You will be happy with either as long as you practice and know your rifle's point of impact at all the yardages within your limitations.
                                                                                                  Roger Sells

[Acer Saccharum]

If you are shooting at matches, like all day long, the .54 will be cheaper in powder and ball, and easier on the shoulder.

I like a .54 for offhand 100 yds. That's my cal of choice for competitive shooting.

[bob in the woods]

I shoot a .54 a lot. Especially for target shooting past 50 yards.  I really like my .62 cal Edward Marshall rifle and hunt with it a lot, if not using my smoothbores . Having said that, I've shot more deer with a .50 cal flinter than anything else.  I like the larger calibers for bear and moose, especially in thick bush or in the tag alders.  The advantage of the larger cal. at a distance requires a proportional powder charge I.M.O.
I don't have to deal with a lot more drop with the larger ball, because of that. Example ...where I usually load my .54 with 100 gr FFg, [ moose ]  I will load the .62 with 120 to 140 gr FFg   This isn't about power necessarily, but more about trajectory.  The same 100 gr FFg in the 62 or the .54 will kill the moose. 
Going up in size, my 10 bore , shooting round balls on top of 140 gr FFg has absolutely flattened everything I've shot with it. .  One more thing; most of the .58's I've seen use the same dimension barrel as a .62 so you might want to consider that.

[Daryl]

I use a .45 for plinking & trails - but I use the .69 for serious target work on trails or range - or the .58 if I want to just have fun & beat the long rifles with a 24" barreled military gun.
I think a .54 or .58 are both good and would depend on what you were hunting.
A .54 will carry on the range just about as well as a .58 over most shooting at ranges under 150yards.  When plinking further out, the larger balls do make a difference and the larger the better. Of course the powder charges (and gun design) must be appropriate.
A hooked butt plate will not be fun in a .58 or .62 THAT I know from experience, however Taylor does just fine with his .62 Hawken, but- it is close to 12 pounds.

[B.Habermehl]

My primary deer hunting rifle is a .58 with a 28 inch barrel. Deer find it to be absolutely poisonous. None have traveled more than 25 yars or so on their feet. I use a sensible load of 80 grains of fffg and a 570 ball. I have harvested more deer with this rifle than all my other firearms combined. It will be up a tree with me tomorrow morning. BJH

[Dphariss]

SLOWLY I'm selling off some lymans and TC's to get another custom.I have a Jacob Dickert flinter 45cal built by Neil Panzerell about 30yrs ago.
Now I'd like either a 54 or 58 in a custom flinter.Have molds for both calibers.(.530,.535,.570,.575)
Not sure and looking for pros and cons.

Stock design is much more critical in a 58, buttplate width, depth of crescent and pitch are more critical.  The 54 is a better option in most rifles. Its also a more traditional caliber. A writing of the time (Hanger) indicates that most Kentuckies of the Rev War were under 54 caliber. A study of rifles that still have rifling show this is likely the case I suspect that 50 is a typical large bore long rifle of the time but reports with this much detail from the time are almost non-existent. If hunting Elk a 58 is somewhat better, a 62 is better still .610-.615" 320 gr ball is 100 grains heavier than a .530 would be better still. But to get useful velocity in a 62 will produce a lot more recoil than the 54. If you only hunt deer a 50 is all you need. 54 is a good choice too. 58? I would go bigger yet if I needed more the 54 but in an English sporting rifle for recoil considerations.

Dan

[jerrywh]

 I agree with Dan in that if you build a 58 or bigger you need to do a lot of figuring and detail as to the geometry or the gun.  If you don't build the big gun correctly it will hurt to shoot it and a gun that hurts to shoot is not accurate. If you know it is going to hurt when you pull the trigger it effects your aim and that can get to be a habit. If you don't get that big ball moving fast enough it will not be accurate for long ranges and that calls for lots of powder.

[Boompa]

  I've owned /shot both and like both calibers. I seriously doubt you'd notice a practical difference in the two. I guess if I had to pick and shoot just one rifle, I'd take the 54.

[Joe S.]

My two cents,depends on what you intend to hunt.I hope to someday hunt larger game with mine but still want to hunt whitetail so I went .58.I'm confident I can take anything I would hunt in north america with a.58 muzzleloader so why not.Quess I can build a bigger thumper or smaller if need be but  IMHO the .58 seems to be a good compromise. As far as recoil.58's are not that bad not talking elephant guns here.

[Virginiarifleman]

i  am a die hard 54 cal fan. not saying i would not have a 58 cal.

[stuart cee dub]

If it were me, I would plck the .54 as a better all around gun but that's because I shoot at the range and in matches way more than I hunt. I  have hunted deer with both calibers both are good killers.

Good stock geometry for a .58 might mean you look at some of the early makers.Lots of those early guns with the wide flat butts work very well as do jaegers.

You can still find .54 caliber round ball at some retailers if you get behind on your molding.
Been a long time since I saw .575 other than online.

[Osprey]

They're pretty close and a .54 will certainly kill near bout anything very dead, but there's so much more than just caliber.  Weight, length, style, etc all matter as much or more, as well as how you intend to use it. 

I always think about hunting first when deciding a build.  For example, my main rifle is a .54 with a 44" swamped C weight octagon.  It's not overly heavy, hunts well, single trigger, but it is a wee long in treestands and blinds.  Next thing on my bench is a .58, but it's got a 38" Oct/Rnd rifled barrel, single trigger and is going to be a featherweight with a big buttplate (Early P Berry (SR?) ) stock.  Would never think about that as a range gun, but for carrying all day and then making one shot that counts?  Oh yeah.  Only jumped to the .58 because of hopes for a moose or elk hunt someday and I got the barrel on closeout, and if I leave flatlands for mountains every ounce I have to carry counts.  If I was looking to make a range rifle neither of those would be my choice, so just plan ahead on expected use.

[410-er]

Thanks for the replies.Guess I'll have to talk to Paul Allison and see what he says.

[vulture]

I don't own a .58, may here in a while, have a Pedersoli American Jaeger in .54 that I don't care for the rifling twist, so am toying with the idea of sending it off and have it redone to a larger bore and slower round ball twist rate, to do so I will have to move up to either .56 or .58, and .58 would be much easier to purchase molds for, now having said all that I do have a couple of .50's and .54's.  I don't hunt, just plink, and use about the same load for each, some where in the range of 35 to 40 grains of FFF powder, this gives me about the same accuracy and point of impact at 25-35 yds.. as does 80 to 90 grains at 100 + yds.., but I like working with the larger .54's.  For me they just seem to be a perfect size, both as a plinker like me, and for hunting, especially if I were to hunt anything like large mule deer or elk here in Utah.  Good luck with what ever you decide on.