Flintlock Fowler Converted to Percussion

[jp29]

Good morning all. I am new to this Forum and this is my first post so please excuse any mistakes I make in posting.

I am hoping to learn as much as I can about the gun I depict in this post through the collective wisdom and experience of all of you. Please excuse the quality of the images I have posted -- I only have my Iphone available and I used it hand held to take the pics. I am a little shaky these days being somewhat "long in the tooth" (86) and with diminished vision.

But to the gun:

The person from who I purchased it knew very little about it. He believed it was made as a trade gun (in its present converted to percussion configuration)

Research References I have available:

FLINTLOCK FOWLERS, The First Guns Made in America, Tom Grinslade, Scurlock Publishing Company Inc. 2005
 
GUNS ON THE EARLY FRONTIERS, From Colonial Times to the Years of the Western Fur Trade, Carl P. Russell, Dover, 2005

THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF TRADE GOODS - VOL. 1, FIREARMS OF THE FUR TRADE, James Austin Hanson, Museum of the Fur Trade, 2005

FOR TRADE AND TREATY, Firearms of the American Indians 1600-1920, Ryan R. Gale, Track of the Wolf Inc. 2010

FOUR CENTURIES OF LIÈGE GUNMAKING, Claude Gaier, Eugene Wahle & Sotheby Parke Bernet, 1976

THE FLINTLOCK: ITS ORIGIN, DEVELOPMENT & USE, Torsten Lenk, J. F. Hayward, G. A. Urquhart, Skyhorse Publishing Company, 2007

All  comments, corrections and observations are much appreciated.

James

Gun images:


.54 caliber smooth bore - 43" long barrel - cherry stock - brass furniture


Stock forend tip - German silver front sight (no rear sight) - hickory ramrod and front pipe


Octagon-to-round barrel - double line moldings along forestock barrel and ramrod channels


Rear ramrod entry pipe


Trigger guard plate with engraved finials


silver escutcheon affixed to top of stock wrist


Butt plate with engraved finial


British style buttstock


Flintlock with sliding bar safety converted to Percussion using new hammer and drum/nipple


H NOCK over WARRANTED stamped on lock plate - I believe this is a spurious stamping?


Liège proof/view stamp
E over LG over star in an oval cartouche on top of the barrel near the breech

[nord]

I doubt anything spurious. The reason being that the gun is likely a trade item and Belgian. Understand... Nothing wrong with Belgian, just not a piece which would or could be up-valued without major work. This not to say that minor changes haven't taken place over time.

I have a friend who owns a similar piece. It's a bit newer and not as nice, but its lines are very much the same. This particular gun and its owner volunteered for service during the first days of the Civil War. During the early days of the war there was a shortage of firearms and it wasn't unusual at all for this to happen. My friend has the shipping tag by which the gun was returned home when standard issue firearms became available. Rail service in 1861 or 1862 was pretty good!

So to this gun... A nice example of an imported fowler. The conversion is more or less to be expected and condition is very nice. Not a piece carrying any great value but still a nice old gun.

[Mike Brooks]

I believe it to be a restock. Probably done in the New England area. Stock appears to be cherry. Funky upper and lower forestock mouldings typical of New England. Recycled  English H. Nock lock and a Belgian low end trade barrel. Probably done after 1820.

[JV Puleo]

I think Mike has nailed it.

[jp29]

Thank you  nord, Mike Brooks, JV Puleo for your prompt and informative reponses. They are much appreciated.

James

[jp29]

I doubt anything spurious. The reason being that the gun is likely a trade item and Belgian. Understand... Nothing wrong with Belgian, just not a piece which would or could be up-valued without major work. This not to say that minor changes haven't taken place over time .........

That pretty well confirms my own thoughts. I have no aspirations to up-value this gun though -- I treasure guns such as this one for their historical significance alone. Are you saying that you believe it to be a genuine Nock lock?

.......... I have a friend who owns a similar piece. It's a bit newer and not as nice, but its lines are very much the same. This particular gun and its owner volunteered for service during the first days of the Civil War. During the early days of the war there was a shortage of firearms and it wasn't unusual at all for this to happen. My friend has the shipping tag by which the gun was returned home when standard issue firearms became available. Rail service in 1861 or 1862 was pretty good!..........

Thank you. I am pleased there is a possibility it has Civil War association. My primary interests are Naval/Sea Service Arms and Accoutrements of the War of 1812 and Napoleonic Wars -- it will be nice to have this CW gun hanging on my wall. I haven't owned such a gun since I bought a "Bannerman special" (1861 dated Bridesburg musket) in 1951.

.......... So to this gun... A nice example of an imported fowler. The conversion is more or less to be expected and condition is very nice. Not a piece carrying any great value but still a nice old gun.

Again, I am not interested in the value -- do you think it could have been subsequently marketed as an Indian Trade Gun?

And thank you for the excellent information.

James

[Lucky R A]

    Mike is right on the button on this one.   I just did some restoration to a similar gun, with the exact molding details.  North East fowlers and "French guns often share some characteristics, this forestock  molding detail is one of them. 
Ron

[jp29]

I believe it to be a restock. Probably done in the New England area. Stock appears to be cherry. Funky upper and lower forestock mouldings typical of New England. Recycled  English H. Nock lock and a Belgian low end trade barrel. Probably done after 1820.

Thank you for that information. I had noticed in studying FLINTLOCK FOWLERS, The First Guns Made in America - Chapter Four, New England Fowlers that Mr. Grinslade lists ten New England Fowlers as having forestock moldings - NE 6, 11, 14(double line), 16, 19(double line), 21(double line), 29, 47, 50, 52(double line).

James

[nord]

I doubt any indian connection. More likely a decent and attractive piece offered by a dry goods store during the very late flint era. I wouldn't be surprised if the piece was converted to percussion within a very short time after it was sold to its first owner.

The stock bothers me less than it does some others as it's very similar to the Belgian I mentioned. In my experience a restock would normally do away with European style architecture and also the decorative furniture. All I'm saying here is that by the time this gun needed a new stock it would have been virtually worthless and unlikely deserving of more than making it a basic shooter.

Just my opinion of course.

[jp29]

I think Mike has nailed it.

Thank you. Do you think this is a genuine Nock Lock?

James

[jp29]

   Mike is right on the button on this one.   I just did some restoration to a similar gun, with the exact molding details.  North East fowlers and "French guns often share some characteristics, this forestock  molding detail is one of them.  
Ron

Thank you Ron.

James

[jp29]

Thank you again, nord, for your additional input.

James

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

For what it's worth, I think the lock is a Nock, as indicated by the engraving.

[jp29]

For what it's worth, I think the lock is a Nock, as indicated by the engraving.

Thank you D. Taylor Sapergia.

James

[jp29]

Reflection:

I have always admired the elegant lines of American Fowlers and wanted to have a decent looking one to hang on my study wall. This gun satisfies that desire. To me, it is worth every penny of what I paid for it. I do not "fix up" or  "cosmetically clean" any of my guns -- I just gently wipe them off using a soft dry cloth when I first get them to remove any surface grime, cob webs and accumulation of dust -- and I repeat that every so often.  I can't change any alterations or beautification efforts exerted by previous owners, but I don't want to perform any myself. On the other hand I do not criticise others who see  merit in restoring their guns to a nicer condition -- I have learned not to be judgmental in my old age!

James

[JV Puleo]

I am suspicious that the lock is a Birmingham export product with a spurious Nock marking. I only say that because his name is added above "Warranted" — which is usually seen on such export locks but I don't think I've ever seen it on a real London-maker gun. That it has a sliding safety is no real indication. Export locks came in all qualities, some very fine indeed although these are very much in the minority. The mounts are British export items as well. In fact, I think I have at least one NE gun with the identical trigger guard. What makes it an American assembled piece is the moulding on the forend, something that is not found on export guns, and the Belgian barrel, which would not be found on a British export fowler. Birmingham was literally swimming in left-over musket barrels when this gun was made. so many that they were used as tubing for the cities first gas lighting system (hence the term "Birmingham gas pipe").

(edit... I missed some words.)

[Mike Brooks]

The H Nock lock is legit. You don't see Belgian knock offs with the sliding safety. I guarantee you it was on  a different gun when it was first used. Don't forget the cherry stock also, pretty much eliminates all other origins except America.
 The architecture reminds me of the many militia pieces made in the New England area around about the war of 1812 and a short time later.

EDIT: I see JV P has added a post whilst I was typing. His comments about the lock are credible. I don't beleve I have seen a H Nock lock with "Warranted" on it. In any event, The lock came from the British gun trade.

[jp29]

I am suspicious that the lock is a Birmingham export product with a spurious Nock marking. I only say that because his name is added above "Warranted" — which is usually seen on such export locks but I don't think I've ever seen it on a real London-maker gun ..........

That makes a lot of sense, JV and is what I imagined from the start.

.......... That it has a sliding safety is no real indication. Export locks came in all qualities, some very fine indeed although these are very much in the minority. The mounts are British export items as well. In fact, I think I have at least one NE gun with the identical trigger guard ...........

Excellent observation JV, thank you.

.......... What makes it an American assembled piece is the moulding on the forend, something that is not found on export guns, and the Belgian barrel, which would not be found on a British export fowler ..........

Again, thank you. And, to my mind, it confirms my postulation that it was indeed originally fabricated in America as a Flintlock Fowler using mostly imported parts (particularly the Liège barrel and a British lock). Additionally, I think the forend molding (ala Mr. Grinslade -- I like your spelling better, but it is not worth quibbling about) does indicate New England) fabrication.
 

.......... Birmingham was literally swimming in left-over musket barrels when this gun was made. so many that they were used as tubing for the cities first gas lighting system (hence the term "Birmingham gas pipe") ..........

Now that is great stuff!

James

[jp29]

.......... Don't forget the cherry stock also, pretty much eliminates all other origins except America.
 The architecture reminds me of the many militia pieces made in the New England area around about the war of 1812 and a short time later ..........

Yes, I am in concert with you there, Mike. I latched on to that as I read FLINTLOCK FOWLERS, The First Guns Made in America - Chapter Four, New England Fowlers. To me, NE  52(double line molding) was somewhat applicable to my gun.

.......... I don't beleve I have seen a H Nock lock with "Warranted" on it. In any  event, The lock came from the British gun trade ..........

That also makes sense to me.

James

[nord]

I guess I'd like to lay hands on the piece. Cherry? I'm not so sure. The color fits but the grain leaves me undecided. If verified cherry, then New England is probably correct. If European walnut I'd call Belgian all the way, except for possibly the lock.

Again... I've seen and held a very similar firearm. The stock was similar in design and color, and without a doubt Belgian.
Whether this makes much of any difference I really can't say. The gun is a nice little fowler. Maybe nothing exceptional, but nice.

[woodsrunner]

nord, I, too, initially questioned the stock being Cherry (Prunus serotina) but the more that I have looked, the more I agree that it probably is Cherry. The cellular structure as seen in the photo showing the silver escutcheon just about has to be Cherry. A lot of times the location of a tree relative to aspect especially in very hilly or mountainous country will cause a slight difference in grain pattern and appearance. Cherry, and especially Ash, grown on a northeast aspect out of direct sunlight will show very slight differences in grain as those trees grown on a southwest aspect in full sun. In this case, give me a 10X hand lens and my pocket knife and I'll tell you for sure in just a minute or so  !

[jp29]

Thank you very much for your stimulating discussion relating to Cherry, nord and woodsrunner.

I understand your skepticism nord and I appreciate your explanation woodsrunner. While not in either of your leagues in the identification and use of this wood, I have often used Cherry  in producing furniture items and decorative boxes throughout the years and I do think this stock is made of American cherry.

James

[jp29]

As a side note ...............

While studying FLINTLOCK FOWLERS, The First Guns Made in America - Chapter Four, New England Fowlers, I was struck by the number of guns smaller than .60 caliber:

NE 11(.54), 16(.55), 17(.58), 18(.59), 41(.56), 42(.59), 43(.52), 44(.53), 45(.59), 50(.58), 52(.56), 53(.52)

James

[Don Stith]

Minor point but it is octagon to round, not hexagon on the barrel
 I don't know about this one but Belgium fowlers frequently used locks marked with English gunmakers names.  An old friend of mine used to joke that belgium was the Post WW2 Japanese of their era. I am sure Louie Parker will know who that was

[jp29]

Minor point but it is octagon to round, not hexagon on the barrel ..........

Nice catch -- thanks!-- corrected (old age brainfart ).

James