Trigger guard on early smoothrifle

[lexington1]

I recently picked up an early smoothrifle. What are your ideas about the trigger guards?  I have seen similar guards to these on other guns. The pictures show two guards, not exact but close enough that I would think that they are somewhat related. Any thoughts or ideas about these types of guards? My guess is that they were imported, but I can't really find any information on them.

[Mike Brooks]

1770-1790ish German or French imports. I  believe the guards are earlier than the stock. What's the BP look like? Would be interesting to see the rest of the gun.

[JTR]

Wow! Good find!
The new one looks like it has the same sort of pointed trigger plate, and trigger as the other one. Similar little tri-pronged engraved element also. I know you have probably already looked, but there's a fair number of similar furniture in RCA, Guns # 59, 71, 79 and 90 for instance. Also similar pointed tail trigger plate and curled triggers on several other guns, see f. 118i. 
Also note the ramrod entry pipe and engraved element on picture f.71g.  Over the years I've searched through every reference I could find to try to gather some info, but can only agree with Shumway and his comments regarding this type of furniture. I always though the BB initials on the butt plate would lead to something, but with no luck.

Hopefully one of the guys here can fill in all the blanks!
John

[lexington1]

Here are a couple more pics. Don't get excited, it doesn't have a wooden patchbox. I had the lid and just set it on the stock to see what it would look like  . The top of the tang on the butt plate is broken off, but from the remaining portion I can tell that the engraving is the same, so it probably came as a set. I would get some better pics, but it's snowing right now. This gun is pretty beefy, but it handles and holds really well. If I was going to copy an original for shooting this would be it. The barrel is about 45" long. Someone had removed the drum and hammer to reconvert it but that's  about as far as they got. It was cheap.........

[Collector]

I like these plain gals, myself.  Offhand, she looks a little on the 'thick' side, but that octagon to round barrel looks like it's substantial, as well.

How about a few more details on the barrel's measurements...  breech, gauge, swamped, tapered(?), the comb and wrist area, pipe furniture, forearm and muzzle (?), sights (?)

I like that 'concave' feature in the lock panel 'teardrop' carving at the tail of the panel.  Might lead to identifying a 'potential' builder.

Don't have my Shumway RCA's available, to me, at the moment, but this hardware looks to be along the lines of a featured PA builder with photos of one complete rifle and a 'attributed' relic butt stock.

I just can't understand why I'm always, always, someplace else, when these pieces surface for sale...    

Look forward to seeing more of this piece...  

[Eric Kettenburg]

There are a number of pieces utilizing this furniture floating around; the two mentioned above in Jim Johnston's old book (used to be attributed to "Jacob Dubbs" but this is kind of silly) and I can think of at least 4 or 5 more off the top of my head, all have somewhat of the same architecture.  Yours looks like the stereotypical "shimmel" as Chuck Dixon used to put it, kind of oversized and plain and could be refined later by the gunmaker depending upon how much a customer wanted to pay.  No way to prove there's any reality to this philosophy but there are certainly quite a few of them out there so maybe?  Anyway, like the the others with this furniture, they all kind of look to have originated in the upper Bucks/Northampton/Montgomery area but by whom (or maybe multiples) is still indeterminate.  I'd guess the import furnishings were being bought in or sent up from Philly, nearby.  Does this have a side plate on it?  Looks like a very cool piece.

[grouchy]

Really cool smooth rifle! Is the toe round? thanks   ned

[lexington1]

Thanks for the info! It doesn't have a sideplate, but has had a couple brass escutcheons put into it, I would say at a later time. I would guess that it originally didn't have anything but either the screw heads or maybe the screw heads with a tiny washer. To me this gun looks like it was made by someone who knew how to stock a gun, but in a workman like fashion. This is a no frills gun for sure, but yet well made, if that makes any sense. The toe is flat. I'll put up some better pics when I get a chance.