Powder horn grenade

[Shreckmeister]

I recently saw a post on another forum where a gentleman stated that because the powder horn was put
together with steel pins in the plug, the horn was essentially a grenade?  Well I've made several horns with
steel pinning the plug in, so is there any validity to this?  I've seen many originals with metal pins and
staples.  Not sure what to think?

[Tim Crosby]

 I would think IF a horn exploded the pins in the base would be the least of ones worries.

   Tim C.

[smokinbuck]

I have a friend who had a house fire and had a number of horns, with powder, hanging.. Most were burned through on at least the exposed side but none exploded.
Mark

[B.Barker]

Put a half pound of black powder in anything and set it off and see what happens. I read an article in Muzzle Blast about pins, pegs and gluing powder horn plugs and exploding each. The glued in plug made the best bomb. Not that any would be a good thing for a person with the horn on his side.

[Robby]

I have read only one story where a spark somehow found its way into an uncapped horn. In that tale, all the fire came out the nozzle and it didn't explode, though the fellow wearing it was burned. If one did explode, at least the metal shrapnel would be findable with x-ray, as opposed to chunks of horn.
Robby

[lexington1]

I saw a guy blow up his horn during the fire building part of a mountain man run one time. The horn did come apart but didn't really do any real damage except that he had burn marks on his side, but nothing serious. The rules were changed after to make it mandatory that the horn be removed for the fire building........

[Bill Paton]

Years ago I operated on an Alaskan boy scout with about a 1 1/4” hole is his broken leg. His scout master had been demonstrating a muzzleloader at camp, and later tried to revive a camp fire by pouring black powder directly on the reluctant fuel from one of those brass cylindrical powder flasks. The stream of powder flashed and ignited the “main charge” in the flask, blowing it up and sending the end cap through the poor boy’s leg. I assume the leader was denied his “Muzzleloading Merit Badge” as well as his “Fire Starting Merit Badge”.

Bill Paton

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I have several of those commercial priming flasks made from machined brass.  I've retired them for these same reasons, but I read a clever way to make them acceptably safe.  Drill a 1/2" hole through the side and glue a piece of leather over the hole.  Otherwise, you have a pipe bomb.

[RoaringBull]

Every single container for black powder ever made or that will be made in the future "could potentially be" a bomb. The incorrect and/or unsafe use of that container will geometrically increase the likelihood of that happening.

[Shreckmeister]

   I should have been more specific.  I realize any horn could blow if presented with a spark.  The man was trying to say that
nonferrous pins would conduct a static spark to the powder and set it off.  My argument is that the pins are through the horn and into
the wood and therefore not exposed to the powder, but not being a longtime black powder shooter, I wanted to make sure I
shouldn't be afraid to use the horns I made with steel pins.  What bothered me most was this guy posts all the time on the other
forum and usually seems knowledgeable.

[The Original Griz]

The pins I use, wether steel or wooden are to the inside of the horn since I turn out the Woden cap to hold more powder, but if static is in question, see here,
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

[lexington1]

If that was the case all of those old Goex cans would have exploded by now 

[Horner75]

Just the general nature of handling and using any explosive has a element of danger and safe practice responsibility for those using it.  Every once in a while a story comes along from someone who claims that they know or have heard of a powder horn blowing up somewhere.  I'm sure that some of these accounts are true, but also some are embellished from what really might of happened.  Many times it's because the unlucky person carrying that horn didn't have the stopper in the horn etc.

I have seen careless shooters at a shoot and on the shooting line loading with their horn stopper just hanging and forgetting to put the horn stopper back in the horn, or a horn laying on a shooting bench with the stopper left out of the spout, as the person is more interested in hitting that target instead of safety to him or others around him.

That is one of the main reason I never furnish a thong/lanyard with my powder horns, as I feel that by having to hold on the stopper, instead of it tied to the horn, makes a shooter aware to plug that horn before shooting.

If you think of all of the thousands of times a powder horn and powder flask are used annually in America and Canada with out an incident.  Black powder shooters have an excellent record of safety. ___ You have a better chance of getting struck by lightening, than having your powder horn explode when safely used!

[Dale Halterman]

Does he have the same heartburn over using metal staples to attach straps to the horn?

Dale H

[Tim Crosby]

 Well said Rick. TC

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Studies have shown that static electricity cannot ignite black powder.  Black powder requires a flame/heat to ignite.  A lot of powder companies now sell their product in plastic containers.

[Ky-Flinter]

I have heard that the end cap should be "pinned" with wooden pegs and not glued, so that if, by some misfortune, the powder inside were ignited, the end cap would blow out.  I have my doubts about this, but I do use wooden pegs, but only because I think they look better than metal.

The theory about static electricity being generated by steel pins and blowing up a horn is just hokum.

-Ron

[Ky-Flinter]

The first national rendezvous I attended was the Old Northwest Territory in 1994.  On our first morning in camp, we were awakened at sunrise by a loud boom.  I assumed it was a cannon shot to greet the new day.  I thought that was pretty cool until I heard the siren of the EMT wagon coming into camp.  

I learned later the loud boom was a guy trying to rekindle a fire by pouring powder from his horn onto the ashes of the previous night's fire.  Yep, just like in the cartoons, the stream of powder ignited and his horn blew up.  His hand was pretty severely injured by the schrapnel.

I don't know what kind of pins held the end cap of his horn.

-Ron

[davec2]

I agree with others that the whole static fear about using metal pins is of no concern.  Brass tacks conduct electricity even better than steel and they would not be of any concern either....at least to me.  A horn is a lousy pressure vessel and will not add much potential danger to a horn full of powder going off.  Even without the horn, if you put a half a pound of powder in a paper sack and set it off in your coat pocket, you will have some trouble.  I think a well sealed horn is the safest way to carry around a low explosive like black powder, wood pins, steel pins, brass pins....whatever.

On the subject of priming flasks, that is a slightly different animal.  A while back, Dennis reported on a friend of his who severely damaged his hand when a priming flask blew up on him.  At the time, I was working on a primer that had a "blow out" safety feature much like Taylor's suggestion.  It uses a modified plunger tube on the business end, but the rear end of the reservoir tube is not closed with metal.  The end is plugged with a leather disk sealed and water proofed with a few drops of varnish.  It only takes a few psi to blow out the leather disk, so, if this one were to catch a spark, you might get burned, but the tube will not explode and there won't be any shrapnel.  (You could do the same thing with a little cork in a plain tube.)

Perhaps a little overkill, but then I had some time, some brass, an idea....and I like to keep all my digits in place.

[davec2]

Ky Flinter.....just saw your post.  As Albert Einstein once said, "The two most common things in the universe are hydrogen...and stupidity !"

[Dennis Glazener]

Dave,
That's pretty neat and certainly should be safer than the original brass priming tubes.
Dennis

[EC121]

Great idea, Dave!  There are all types of rupture discs in industry.  We had some 6ft. diameter at the paper mill.  No reason a brass primer couldn't have one.  A cork or wooden dowel driven in to a drilled hole would probably be enough to relieve the pressure in a primer.

[Hungry Horse]

I'm sorry but every time I see somebody wandering around a shooting event with a priming device around their necks, be it brass, silver, or horn, it gives me the heebyjeebys. Most of these devices have the little push type brass valve in them, and quite often there is a gob of 4f stuck to the end of it.

    Hungry Horse

[Arcturus]

My primer is attached to my hunting bag strap by a leather lace and goes back inside the bag and under the flap when hunting or shooting.  Never liked the idea of hanging one around my neck either.

[Gun_Nut_73]

Davec2, that is a beautiful primer flask.  The glued in leather disc makes sense.  If you ever make more of those flasks, I want one.  Perhaps with an initial or design stamped into the leather.