barrel cutting advice needed

[WKevinD]

I am about to start a project where I need to cut 8" off a straight tapered barrel. I know the muzzle is important to accuracy so I am looking for advice on cutting the muzzle square (hacksaw) and crowning the .54 cleanly.
I had thought about cutting the breech but have no tools or experience for a 3/4 x 16 thread.
Kevin

[oldtravler61]

Burnt am no expert. Just an opinion. Sell or trade for the barrel you want. Less hasel. Specially if your not confident with cutting it. Imho

[bgf]

Ask around for gunsmiths with lathes.  Benchrest shooters are fanatical about muzzles and crowns and many are nice if you don't bother them during practice or a match.

[smylee grouch]

You can send it off to some on e like Track of the Wolf or others and they will cut and rethread or just cut and crown.

[kaintuck]

or just measure twice and cut once....use a scribe and mark you cut, hack saw off, then file to scribe mark....numerous ways to crown.....
or~bobby hoyt can do it perfectly..........
marc n tomtom

[moleeyes36]

or just measure twice and cut once....use a scribe and mark you cut, hack saw off, then file to scribe mark....numerous ways to crown.....
or~bobby hoyt can do it perfectly..........
marc n tomtom

Just don't use the government method of measuring something with a micrometer, marking it with a piece of chalk, and cutting it with an ax.   

Mole Eyes

[Acer Saccharum]

First of all, if you are determined to cut your barrel, make sure of what you've got before you cut. Push a tightly patched ball from breech to muzzle.

If the ball gets a little harder to push toward the muzzle, you have a choked muzzle, which is excellent. Preserve that at all costs.

If the ball gets easier to push in the muzzle zone, that means the bore is getting a little looser. You won't get top accuracy out of this muzzle, so cut the loose section off.

If the bore feels even all the way through, then cut off either end.

[DFHicks]

The YouTube below shows how to cut off and crown a .50 caliber muzzle loading barrel.  I haven't tried it but looks like a technique that would do the job.  At any rate it's worth watching.
Good luck _ Greg

[L. Akers]

I have cut many barrels without the use of a lathe but if you have access  to one by all means use it.  If not begin by scribing your cut-off point on all 8 flats.  Use the muzzle as a reference.  Use a hacksaw with a new blade and saw a shallow (1/16") groove on the waste side of your scribe mark, leaving the mark, on all 8 flats.  Continue to saw down in increments on all flats until the section is parted off.  Carefully and gradually file the muzzle to the scribe marks, changing filing stroke directions often.  If your barrel was parallel instead of tapered you could use a square to check across the muzzle referenced from the flats.

[Hungry Horse]

 I have cut off many barrels over the years. And, like you, was very concerned the first time. I had the first one turned off on a lathe, by an old gunsmith, and hand crowned. Heck, it cost me more than the barrel. The next time I needed a barrel shortened I asked one of the best muzzleloader shooters in our area, that builds all his own guns, if he would do it for me. He said sure, no problem, drop by any time. I stopped by one day, and before I realized what he was doing, he stuck the barrel in the clamp on his cutoff wheel, and the sparks flew. I was still gasping for breath, when he snatched up round stone for his electric drill, and crowned it for me. He handed me a piece of Emory cloth, and told me to wrap it around my thumb and polish the crown. I was sick at my stomach, but was determined to shoot the gun before reading him the riot act. Sun of a gun, it's the best shooter I own. The most important part to remember is cut it square,don't overdo the crown, and polish it up good and slick.

   Hungry Horse

[jerrywh]

 What you can do is try a couple of  the different happy go lucky ways described herein then if it doesn't shoot well sent it to somebody who knows what the heck he is doing. Some people just get lucky once in a while. Shooting well is a relative term. It depends on who the shooter is. If you want that gun to shoot a 2" circle at 100 yds it requires accuracy. Accuracy means exact, not good enough.
 

[Mark Elliott]

If I had a large enough lathe, I would sure enough use it to breech and crown a barrel, but I would like to point out that no one had such a thing 200 years ago.   That said,  on my do to list for making a hand forged barrel is a crown cutter made just like the breech mill, only larger.   I will use the same pilot for both.    Such a tool with a good pilot is probably more accurate than an lathe given that you are making some assumptions about the bore location when you chuck the barrel in the lathe and shim it at the back of the spindle hole. 

[jerrywh]

 John Twigg had 12 lathes in his shop in 1790. I'm sure there were some in the USA as well. Besides that this is not 1790.  Joseph Manton probably has 20 or 30 of them. The Egyptians had lathes BC.

[Mark Elliott]

John Twigg had 12 lathes in his shop in 1790. I'm sure there were some in the USA as well. Besides that this is not 1790.  Joseph Manton probably has 20 or 30 of them. The Egyptians had lathes BC.

A lathe and a lathe to do barrel work are two different things.   I have two lathes in my shop.   Nether one will do barrel work.

[Acer Saccharum]

I have two lathes in my shop. Both I can work on barrels with. 

[jerrywh]

 If you have a small lathe you can make a barrel facing cutter with a pilot on it. Sort of like this one.http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-chamfering-tool-kits/index.htm
 Who made the tumbler mills for the colonial gun makers

[Mark Elliott]

If you have a small lathe you can make a barrel facing cutter with a pilot on it. Sort of like this one.http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-tools/barrel-chamfering-tool-kits/index.htm
 Who made the tumbler mills for the colonial gun makers

Actually,  I plan to make such a cutter.   I have a long list of tools to make and that is on it, still a good ways down.  

As to tumbler mills,  I expect that most were made in England.   I don't know if breech mills and muzzle mills were stock tools that could be ordered from England.   The ones that Jim Wilson has look to be blacksmith or gunsmith made.   

[Boompa]

 Some of you have probably forgotten more about rifle building than I'll ever know but.... I would think that if the muzzle were carefully filed square, regardless of how the barrel is cut, hack saw or cut-off saw, and the crown polished using a sphere with lapping paste, you should end up with an accurate barrel. It would take some time but how hard can it be?

[Hungry Horse]

The last time I checked my American history neither Twigg, or Manton had a shop on this side of the pond. This is about AMerican longrifles, right?

   Hungry Horse

[Acer Saccharum]

Harry Popes experiments showed that the angle of the muzzle changed where the bullets hit the target, but did not affect group size.

So hacksaw and file are fine, use a square to compare from opposite sides if your barrel is swamped.

[WKevinD]

Thanks for all the input. I have the ability and experience to regulate a breech by a few flats and have cut and crowned short sections of barrels that were on cartridge guns but I don't want to start of a new build with "pretty good, darn close or best I can do with what I got"
I have a wood lathe, have never used a metal lathe so this leaves lathe work to others.
From the muzzle I have two main concerns. With a tapered barrel a square layout and execution gives me pause. The other is not knowing if there is any runnout on the bore 8" in from the existing face. All of this makes me lean toward cutting the breech and finding someone capable of tapping the 3/4-16 threads.
I may be overthinking this and should probably just grab my hacksaw and whack the end off and call it good-nuff but I just can't get my head wrapped around the compromise.
Kevin

[James Wilson Everett]

Kevin,

One way to do this job is to use a dial caliper type tool with the jaws locked so they cannot move.  Then with one jaw at the muzzle, use the other jaw tip to scribe a scratch on all eight flats.  Now carefully cut & file to the line. 

To check if the bore is on center, look at the tutorial "centering the bore in a barrel"

Jim

[Gene Carrell]

Ditto what Acer said. I built a little 'starter' rifle for use by my grandkids a few yrs. ago with a 15/16th 40cal bbl. 30" long. It grouped 4" left at 25yds. I then "walked" the group to center by filing a very slight angle on the muzzle. A little goes a long way.

[Acer Saccharum]

Much less labor and expense cutting the muzzle end. Guns were often cut back when the muzzles wore out, or fashion dictated shorter barrels.

No matter how good you are, a hacksaw will only get you close to a good square end. Filing will be necessary. A bevel gage can be set to check squareness as you file. Check from one side, then the opposite side. Then top and bottom.

Then you must crown the muzzle.

[JCKelly]

I am told Green Mountain barrels are choked. Best not cut the muzzle off of one.