16 or 20 for Toms

[Osprey]

Okay, next gun on my list to build is a plain, aged, steel mounted fowler for turkey hunting, but I'm still back and forth between 16 and 20 gauge.  The barrels I'm looking at are either a cylinder 16 or a full choked 20.  I like the pattern ability of the full 20, but the larger shot loads of the 16.  Should they equal out, all things considered, as to shot on target?  Any of you experienced smoothy shooters have any suggestions.  Not worried about round balls, and while I may shoot a goose or two with it the primary purpose is to splatter those big red & blue heads.   

[Bill of the 45th]

16, or 12 at least, more shot to the pattern.  That will give you more density at a little greater distance wityh a cylinder bore.  Also if you are going to take on geese you need a larger bore, because of the shot laws.  My two pence worth

Bill

[northmn]

Many people get their barrels choked after market by people that can do this.  I would contact Mike Brooks as he makes fowlers and has one that is a Turkey special which is an 11 bore which he claims can be good up to 50 yards or so.  Were I to build a Turkey special that may be used on geese I would not use either a 16 or 20 but would go to the big ones.  There are those getting turkeys with small bores and some interesting loads, but a bigger bore like those 12 gauge and up are made to shoot them, do so with less pressure and more velocity.  The 20 bores are great guns if used for other purposes and adapted for turkeys and close up work.  A full choked 11 bore will deliver a higher center density with a heavy shot load than will a full choked 20.  It is easier to load down a 12 than load up a 20, period.

DP

[Daryl]

Osprey - I suggest you heed Bill and DP's advice with the larger bore, especially when not concerned with round ball shooting.  If ball shooting was a necessity, I'd go with a 16- but - since that's not the case, a 10 or 12 would be my choice with a jug choke about moderate.  Geese pretty much means steel and steel means heavy plastic shot-cups.  Tungsten too, but bismuth doesn't need the cups.  Cups usually don't work in jug chokes. apparently.

[hanshi]

   Since the topic of smoothbore gauges has come up, I was hoping to get some info & advice from some of you shooters experienced with them.  I am planning on getting a 20ga flint fowler.  The only smoothy experience I've had has been with a dbl 12ga perc gun I own.  The gun will be a 20ga and that's what I'll have to work with.  I'll be shooting more ball than shot & will be (due to lead poverty) casting .600 ball from wheel weights for general shooting.  The gun will be used for deer (mainly), turkey and some squirrel.  I've got a fair handle on using shot but just don't know what to expect (or where to start) using ball.

For deer I don't want low velocity loads.  I'd prefer speeds in the 1300 - 1400fps range.  Can these velocities be SAFELY reached in the octagon to round barrel?  I will be using 3f which is what I have and what I've always used (probably got less than a can of 2f).  My shots (with a couple of exceptions) have always been 75 yds & under, usually under 50yds.  I'd need power to take deer cleanly at these ranges.  Could some of you gentlemen point me in the right direction?





 

[northmn]

First, if you are worried about pressures in an Oct-Round you should possibly consider using 2F.  That being said I am sure many use 3f OK.  A 600 ball at over 300 grains of weight used at smoothbore ranges retains its velocity quite well and the down range differences between a load of 1200 mv and 1400 on deer may not be as much as you think.  Load for accuracy in a reasonable power range.  Some like even a 590 in a 20 bore.  The flint fowlers are a lot of fun on the small game.  A few folks in these parts have taken black bear with 20 gauges and about 80-90 grains of 2f.

DP

[Daryl]

I'd use 70gr. to 82gr. of 3F, or 90gr. to 100 of 2F for deer, black bear out to 75 yards - whatever the gun demands.  Do not worry about pressures with these loads Flintr.  I certainly wouldn't.  A .590" to .595" ball might be a better size with hard balls (straight WW), and if a large 20 at .620" to .625", you can use a descent denim patch for easy loading with a .595" ball.  If the bore is .615", a .590" would be my choice of ball.   

[hanshi]

Thanks, fellas, for the info.  It has been my contention that smoothies (octagon to round) are stronger than given credit for.  After all they start off with the first third as heavy octagon and that's where most of the powder burns.  I've read of 70grns plus 3f used with an ounce or more of shot and a 300grn to 325 grn ball is a lot lighter than that.  This is just new territory for me and I like my hat on my head, not in a tree.

[bob in the woods]

Just for the record, I shot a bear with a .20 gauge smoothbore using a patched .610 {Lyman mold ]
ball and 80 gr. 3F    The distance was 24 feet...the length of my shop. It clobbered him.
I use my 10 gauge smoothbore for ducks, geese and will try it for turkey this year. A few years ago, I got 2 wood ducks with one shot with my Bess.  They were coming in to the beaver pond on my property. I like the bigger bores for shot loads, cause they don't string out as much.

[hanshi]

These are the kind of reports I need to hear.  Gives me a good idea what's used in the field and what works.  Any more?

[roundball]

"...fowler for turkey hunting..."

"...I may shoot a goose or two with it the primary purpose is to splatter those big red & blue heads..."

In my opinion:

If you're going to go after waterfowl with steel shot and those large thick shotcups, generally speaking that would trump the .20ga as a choice;

However, if turkey and upland game are the goal, without waterfowl, a .20 is an excellent choice.

[Bill of the 45th]

As a form of comparison, a .40 will kill a deer, but it requires more skill, and accuracy, has less range when it comes to a clean kill (like that's an issue. On the other hand a .54 has more range, mass, and killing power, and offers some amount of forgiveness, for that same kill.  The same applies for guage in fowlers.

Bill

[hanshi]

I won't be hunting waterfowl, just turkey.  That'll be the pretty much the extent of my use of shot...maybe a little squirrel & dove.  Ball is what I'll use most, for deer.

[roundball]

Then a nice .20ga Flinter would be my choice... 

[Leatherbelly]

  Gotta like the "sweet 16" for birds AND big game! In a smoothie shooting wheel weighs,  it'll punch right thru a moose/elk at 50 yds using reasonable loads.(...probably thru a cape buffalo using stout loads) Not a great trail or competition gun for old guys who don't handle repetitive heavy recoil. So then you need a competition smoothbore too!  20, 24, 28, you have choices!

[northmn]

A roundball 20 will limit your range for turkey as it is no choke.  As to deer hunting and other non target applications, an animal the size of a deer may not show much difference in being hit by a 20 or 16, especially with WW.  Dead is dead and the 20 has a good reputation.  I built my 12 becasue I have used the bigger bores and still prefer them, but the particular gun I built is absolutely no fun with RB. 

DP

[Osprey]

Thanks for the responses!  I was already leaning toward the 16, pretty sure now that's what I'll go with.  I'll play with loads as a cylinder bore, if I can't get it where I want it I'll look at having some choke put on it.  Good pattern out to 30 yds is all I need.  Heck, it's so thick around here I've had birds gobbling at 15 yds and have never seen them.   

The comments about 10 and 12 bores are interesting, but the 16 just seems to have the lightest weight and frame size I want to build. 

Geese would really be an  afterthought.  Got a 10 sxs cap gun I bought for waterfowl years ago, but barely use it.  Just such a pain in the boat and blind and around all the saltwater.  Taken a few with it, but hard to get fast followup shots on crips, too.   Especially divers. 

This one won't get steel in it.  But, well, ya know, if it's loaded, and the geese get off the field in the morning and fly over the house, and I happen to be standing on the back step, well, things happen.   

[Daryl]

I personally think 16 is a good choice as a heavy hitter.  It will hold enough shot if needed, and as we've found out from guys like Flintr and DP, loading with several thin wads as over powder wads can tighten patterns, whereas a thick cushion wad can punch through them and cause donuts - ie: cylinder bore.  A 16 will easily handle 1 1/8oz shot, but will probably work just well to 30 yards with 1oz.  An ounce in Taylor's 14 bore works well, with 72% running at 26 yards with good centre concentration, giving a waterfowl or grouse pattern to 30 easily.  Nice to find out, it wasn't the light loads it shot best with - almost a square load ie: 2 1/2 drams (68gr.) of 2F and 1oz. shot.