Author Topic: Time for change  (Read 5168 times)

Harnic

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Time for change
« on: March 19, 2009, 01:09:43 AM »
Well, after a winter of reflection I've finally decided to modify my Track fullstock flint Hawken.  I built it with the full 42" GM 50 cal 1" barrel & while it looks cool, it's way too muzzle heavy.  I am cutting 8" off for a barrel length of 34" which will look & feel much more Hawken like.  It also leaves me with an 8" piece of barrel for a nice flint belt pistol to go with the rifle.  I thought I wanted the best of both worlds, a long rifle & a fullstock Hawken, but other than the looks, I didn't enjoy such a long cannon much!  My next project (after the pistol) will be a Track Bridger Hawken (caplock) for that day when black powder is too expensive or too hard to get.  The snow should melt enough by the end of March to get out & shoot my "new" Hawken!  :D

northmn

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 01:16:52 AM »
Were it me I would cut off 10 inches and make it 32 inches as I like the shorter barrel in 1".  However I do not know the geometry of thimbles for repositioning if you are going to do so. I would still cut the pistol barrel down in length.  Good luck.  Why would a caplock be any better if powder is too expensive or hard to get?

DP

Offline Benedict

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 01:30:45 AM »
Before using the cut off section of rifle barrel for a pistol, give some thought to the twist that you want in the pistol.  Pistol barrels normally have much faster twists than rifle barrels.  Pistol barrels are not that expensive considering the labor in building.

Wouldn't caps be hard to get if powder was?

Just my thoughts.

Bruce

Offline T*O*F

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 02:27:59 AM »
Quote
Why would a caplock be any better if powder is too expensive or hard to get?
Because you can always change to a BP powder substitute, or pellets.  None of which work in a flintlock well, if at all.
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Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 02:38:57 AM »
Were it me I would cut off 10 inches and make it 32 inches as I like the shorter barrel in 1".  However I do not know the geometry of thimbles for repositioning if you are going to do so. I would still cut the pistol barrel down in length.  Good luck.  Why would a caplock be any better if powder is too expensive or hard to get?

DP
I would bet the farm (if I had one) that he was referring to the real black and figures he can always go to the imitation stuff!  (maybe)

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2009, 04:23:51 AM »
Harry, you are definitely going to enjoy shooting the rifle more at 34".  Don't even hesitate.
I thought that I'd never have any further interest in Hawken rifles having built over 180 of them for Robinson Firearm Mfg. thirty years ago.  Not to mention the several that came out of my own shop, a couple of which were my own.  But I have a deep seated love affair with the design, and so I'll build "one" more - for me!  I ordered the butt plate from Don Stith just a couple of days ago.  It'll be percussion too, or all things.
So fly at 'er Harry.  You won't regret it.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 04:24:19 AM by D. Taylor Sapergia »
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Offline David Rase

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2009, 06:01:39 AM »
I thought that I'd never have any further interest in Hawken rifles having built over 180 of them for Robinson Firearm Mfg. thirty years ago.  Not to mention the several that came out of my own shop, a couple of which were my own. 
Taylor,  I built 29 of the things.  I never thought I was going to get to build a long rifle.  Orders just keep coming in when I lived in Colorado.  I have to admit, I do enjoy a nicely built Hawkin.  Keep thinking someday I might just build me one more for myself, a full stock flinter.  I have all the parts for a Leman full stock, maybe that will satisfy my urge.
Another fur trade era gun I always liked were the  JJ Henry English Pattern Trade Rifles that Ron Paull built.
DMR   

California Kid

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2009, 06:26:00 AM »
Been thinking the same thing. Have one with a Bill Large barrel I built in 1975. They are nice to shoot at longer ranges. Currently finishing up an English Fowler that Dave did the barrel inlet on, but have a C. Hawken in the works next

Harnic

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2009, 08:40:39 AM »
DP, I like a 34" barrel on a fullstock early Hawken.  They were a transition stage from longrifles to plains rifles & tended to be slightly longer than the later & more famous half stock Hawkens.  Black powder is being terribly over regulated in Canada & is getting more difficult to get every year as shops don't like to carry it for the small amount sold.  As several of our insightful friends pointed out, there are many substitute powders that work well in a caplock.

Bruce, handguns are highly regulated in Canada & if one orders a pistol length barrel it creates all sorts of paperwork with customs & police.  I can get a lock without arousing suspition & all the rest of the parts & wood are easily made/obtained here.  After the pistol is finished it's a simple job to have it verified & registered.  As to the twist, pistols are shot at such ridiculously close range here that rifling isn't needed at all.

Taylor, I've been pondering cutting my barrel all winter & have slept on it more than long enough.  That trail walk I shot with you last year at Heffley is reason enough!  I hope to get the Jim Bridger parts from Track to build next winter.  Which would you suggest, 58 or 62 cal?  I really didn't give caplocks a fair try.  When I got into muzzle-loaders in 1977 I bought one of those cheap Italian "Hawken" kits.  I met Hugh Toenges shortly thereafter & he was so against caplocks, he practically gave me that 50 Sharon barrel I sent you for Wayne & sold me an L&R Late English flint kit to assemble a nice lock.  I only used the cap gun for a few months before Hugh "converted " me & the breech on that was poorly designed, very prone to misfires.  A well designed Hawken would be a delight!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 02:31:44 AM by Harnic »

northmn

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2009, 12:58:52 PM »
If you are building a rifle for just shooting at targets, I would not go over a 54 as the bigger ones start to hurt.  The classic Hawken design still has that narrow curved butt plate, which is not the best for recoil. I understood some had a shotgun butt plate, but not the model you are looking at.  Several pistols have been made out of cut off rifle barrels and worked better than most think.  Part of it is the closer range and the other is that we used to use a little heavier charge.  The modern fast twist are for 20-25 grain loads in a 45.  As to a 1" barrel in a pistol, if I knew a machinist I would have it turned oct to round.  I thought you may have been referring to phoney powder.  In the States it is more expensive than BP and still is not all that great in percsussions, but will work.

DP

DP

omark

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2009, 07:32:13 PM »
i agree about not going over 54 if it is a plinker. if making a hunter, i would go 62 instead of 58. has a little more punch and carries a little easier due to weight. i have a fullstock 62 with a 36 inch barrel hawken capgun and it gets heavier each year, much the same as the hills get steeper.  mark :)

Harnic

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Re: Time for change
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2009, 02:40:44 AM »
I'm thinking 58-62 cal just for the weight factor.  I don't hunt anymore, just plink.  I'm not bothered a lot by recoil (no sense, no feeling) but am losing the upper body strength I had as a younger man & find holding a heavy rifle steady harder now (hence cutting my barrel now).  The larger calibre will have a lighter barrel.  The caplock is still a dream, not sure I want to spend that much for parts, any I have priced will run well over $1,000 Can to get here.  I'll probably stick with "ol' Betsy" until I can't get powder.