two piece tang?

[Turtle]

  I'm building a southern rifle was thinking of incorporating one of those cool long tangs. The Rice barrel has the original tang and I was thinking of welding a madeup long extension to it. Looking a pictures of southern tang styles, two look like the long thin section is a separate piece-is this correct?  I'm pretty good at inletting, but it sure would be easier if it was separate.
                                                            Thanks,Rich

[JCKelly]

You might want to check with a good welder as to the best way to weld that 12L14. I understand the sulfur and phosphorus make welding a bit picky.

[David Rase]

Turtle,
Since I have no shame, or secrets, here are a couple of photos of a N.C. rifle that I did with a two piece over the comb tang.  I did a one piece over the comb tang prior to the two piece and was always nervous when I had the barrel out of the stock that I would bump and bend the long thin tang hanging out from the breech of the barrel.
David

This first photo shows the joint between the tang and the tang extension.  Note the small flat which makes up the joint.


This second photo shows the tang to buttplate return joint.


In the middle of this photo is a profile view of the tang extension itself.  You can see how it is captivated under each end.  Note the tab in the middle to pin the extension.  Not sure if this is necessary or not.


The finished product installed on the rifle.   

[Pete G.]

Two possibilities here. One is that they were made as two pieces to facilitate barrel removal, the other is that it broke off at some time from being stressed. I built one and used the two piece idea, treating the extension like a long inlay because it just seemed to make a better finished product, however whether it is absolutely correct or not I do not know.

[gunmaker]

Forget the tang---tell us about that guard...please...Tom

[David R. Pennington]

..and some pictures of the whole rifle please.

[JoeG]

After building one SMG with a one piece tang that when half way down the comb, I said never again.
Now seeing the way you did that , you got me thinking about trying another. Thank you for sharing
 

[David Rase]

Forget the tang---tell us about that guard...please...Tom

Tom,
The guard is based on a two piece guard from Phillip Gillespie.  I forged the bow from a piece of steel bar.  I made a wood pattern and then sand cast the brass grip rail.  The two pieces were riveted and soldered together.
David 

[David Rase]

..and some pictures of the whole rifle please.

http://contemporarymakers.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-gillespie-project-by-david-rase.html

[ddoyle]

I understand the sulfur and phosphorus make welding a bit picky

But even my 1/3 HP lathe can machine it like a hog and the chips all fall on the tray so all other considerations are secondary.

[Bob Roller]

Turtle,
Since I have no shame, or secrets, here are a couple of photos of a N.C. rifle that I did with a two piece over the comb tang.  I did a one piece over the comb tang prior to the two piece and was always nervous when I had the barrel out of the stock that I would bump and bend the long thin tang hanging out from the breech of the barrel.
David


This first photo shows the joint between the tang and the tang extension.  Note the small flat which makes up the joint.


This second photo shows the tang to buttplate return joint.


In the middle of this photo is a profile view of the tang extension itself.  You can see how it is captivated under each end.  Note the tab in the middle to pin the extension.  Not sure if this is necessary or not.


The finished product installed on the rifle.   

THIS is the cock I mentioned in an earlier post from Jerry DeVaudreuil.There is a plate and frizzen that goes with it as well for a Ketland variation I made years ago for the so called "flint"Hawken. It's a small lock and
a booger to make but it really performs.

Bob Roller

[Mark Elliott]

I never saw one that was two pieces.  That would have defeated the purpose, which was for the gun maker to show off.   Besides,  it is easy to forge a long over the comb tang.   You can easily do it with a long (6"+) tang machined breech plug.   The trouble is in the inletting, not so much the forging.   

[David Rase]

I never saw one that was two pieces.     

Sure you have Mark.  You just saw mine. 
David

[Mark Elliott]

I never saw one that was two pieces.     

Sure you have Mark.  You just saw mine. 
David

Until I saw yours. 

[oldtravler61]

Either way. Very nice work. Really like that trigger guard. Excellent workmanship.

[Old Ford2]

Where the heck is the finished rifle?
Nice work!
Fred

[P.Bigham]

 There is a Soddy Daisy In the Virtual Museum.  That shows a 2 piece Tang. ?

[Ken G]

There is a Soddy Daisy In the Virtual Museum.  That shows a 2 piece Tang. ?

PBingham,

Sorry to be late on the reply.  The one in the Virtual Museum is mine.  The tang was broke at some point during its useful life.  It was originally a one piece tang.  

Cheers,
Ken

[rsells]

I have an original Tenn built rifle  with a tang running up and over the comb and back approx 2 1/2 inches that was originally built in two pieces like David did.  I was a bit suprised when I took the barrel out to do some restoration work.  I have built rifles with long tangs both with two piece  and one piece tangs.  Since I use a barrel maker that supplies the barrels with a tang in them I make the tangs in two pieces.  However, I do it differently than my original.  I make a slot on the bottom of the tang that comes with the barrel.  I make the second part of the tang with a step tongue affair that will slide into the slot under the supplied tang.  I inlet the parts seperately, slide the two tang parts together after the inlet work has been done, and swedge them together.  I then weld the parts together on the bottom of the tang, and finish the top of the tang by flowing silver solder or braze the area on top of the tang to fill any gap.  When cleaned up, the joint isn't obvious if I fit the parts properly, and is a lot easier to inlet.   Plus, I take advantage of the existing tang fitted to the barrel by the supplier. 
                                                                                                 Roger Sells

[Turtle]

 I bought the one piece southern breech plug and tang from track and fitted it to the barrel. It was a pup to inlet well, but I'm pretty happy with the results.
                                                          Turtle

[PPatch]

Thanks for the link to your rifle Dave, that is one sweet SMR!

dave

[WadePatton]

Thank you Roger.

I have an original Tenn built rifle  with a tang running up and over the comb and back approx 2 1/2 inches that was originally built in two pieces like David did...                      Roger Sells

[Turtle]

 I am not satisfied with the wrist contour at the lollypop. Due to its width, there needs to be a flat spot around it and it looks funny behind the round foreword wrist section. Should I create a consistent  flat section along the tang all the way from breech to the lollypop? Hope I expressed this clearly.
                                            Thanks, Rich