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Firearm Effectiveness

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northmn:
The shooting of Frasier topic got so way off course that I thought I would start this one to explore some of the issues brought up.  I started to do so a few days ago talking about KE but deleted due to the fact that it was not really what I meant to pursue.  This is a traditional ML forum, however when talking about calibers for hunting, and other issues of effectiveness it is for comparison purposes necessary to bring in more modern calibers and examples as we are really more familiar with the arms we grew up with.
First I think we can accept the fact that there are some calibers better suited to say deer hunting than others.  Deer have been killed with 22 long rifles, even shot behind the shoulder.  yet I really do not think we would want to hunt deer with a 22.  In the past their have been some interesting calibers such as the 25-20 and 32 20 that are fun but died off because for most uses they are either too big or too little.  I hear some claim they would hunt deer with 32's, 36's and 40's just like great granddad did.  I take the stand that they should not be used for that purpose as better ones are available and they leave poor trails for tracking.   Likewise one can hunt elk with a 45 roundball but may be handicapped for the same reason.  The 50 and 54 have proven very popular today with roundball for bigger game I think for the same reason they were carried out West by a lot adventurers.  They are effective and satisfy our needs.  Many hunt deer in my neck of the woods with a 50 and many have bought the 54's for that dream elk hunt.  Few use a 45 and yet I would have no hesitation using one.  However the bigger bores also hit harder at longer range which is another factor. 
Hopefully we can pursue this issue in its own thread instead of stealing a thread on long range shooting.

DP

Mike R:
I personally consider the .44 a minimum deer caliber for clean kills [with the knowledge that .22s can kill a deer--my buddy killed a doe for meat last winter with a .22CB short].  The .54 is my minimum for elk.  It is not legal to hunt big game in my state with .40 or under [ML].  Alot of us have been conditioned to consider the .30-30 the minimum deer round--and it is head and shoulders beyond most MLs ballistically [if not in performance].  I think most MLs ought to keep their shots under 100 yds.  Those comments ought to start the arguments going---BYE!  I am off for a few days!

Dphariss:

--- Quote from: northmn on July 17, 2008, 10:45:21 PM ---The shooting of Frasier topic got so way off course that I thought I would start this one to explore some of the issues brought up.  I started to do so a few days ago talking about KE but deleted due to the fact that it was not really what I meant to pursue.  This is a traditional ML forum, however when talking about calibers for hunting, and other issues of effectiveness it is for comparison purposes necessary to bring in more modern calibers and examples as we are really more familiar with the arms we grew up with.
First I think we can accept the fact that there are some calibers better suited to say deer hunting than others.  Deer have been killed with 22 long rifles, even shot behind the shoulder.  yet I really do not think we would want to hunt deer with a 22.  In the past their have been some interesting calibers such as the 25-20 and 32 20 that are fun but died off because for most uses they are either too big or too little.  I hear some claim they would hunt deer with 32's, 36's and 40's just like great granddad did.  I take the stand that they should not be used for that purpose as better ones are available and they leave poor trails for tracking.   Likewise one can hunt elk with a 45 roundball but may be handicapped for the same reason.  The 50 and 54 have proven very popular today with roundball for bigger game I think for the same reason they were carried out West by a lot adventurers.  They are effective and satisfy our needs.  Many hunt deer in my neck of the woods with a 50 and many have bought the 54's for that dream elk hunt.  Few use a 45 and yet I would have no hesitation using one.  However the bigger bores also hit harder at longer range which is another factor. 
Hopefully we can pursue this issue in its own thread instead of stealing a thread on long range shooting.

DP

--- End quote ---

With perfect shot placement a 45 will kill elk. But if you screw up the shot and hit a big bone there will be "problems".
38 or 40s will obviously kill deer, lots of people have meat hunted with 22s years ago including a friend of mine.
For where I live a 50 is near perfect for deer. But I think the 54 is light for elk. 54 WILL work just fine but again if you hit a major bone penetration may be reduced. The upper leg bone on a large elk is pretty tough. A 535 Rb will break it but it takes a lot out of the ball in the process and penetration suffers.
However, a friend saw a norther BC Moose killed with a 54 RB at 170 yards with lung shot and the ball went to the far side hide.
The RB needs more careful shot placement than a Sharps or a .338. Alaska moose, for example, are HUGE and you don't want to get one of these in the way of a 54 RB.

The oldtimers knew the RB would have problems with heavy bones and used head/neck/lung shots.
Forsythe reported that a hardened 15 ga ball would penetrate completely through an Indian Elephants head from side to side. So if of sufficient weight and hardness the RB will work for almost anything.

Dan

Roger Fisher:
I built and use a .54 Jaeger for deer hunting and a .45 (now nearer to a .46) for competition walks and 'line' shoots.  The .45 is a pleasure to shoot and has been shot thousands of times and at times hits the 'target'; but I love the old girl just the same! ::)

I built and shoot a .47 (don't ask it's a long story) chunk gun.  I like her a lot also.

My trade gun is a 28 gauge and she gets pounded a lot also! ;D

jim m:
Toby Bridges, says a round ball is not efficent enough for hunting big game, and only an in line with a scope should be used. guess the 5 deer I've taken with a round ball didn't know that. the furthest that any of them went after being hit was 50yds.

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