loading a muzzle loader

[wildthing]

Reading the thread about priming horns got me thinking. How did they go about loading their guns. Did they use measures or just pour from the horn?   If you are in a fire fight it takes time to dump into a measure then down the bore.  Simon Kenton loaded on the run so he wasn't using any.   Wildthing                                                                                                                       

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Judging from the number of extant powder measures I'd say they were in common use.

[michaelB.]

I'd go with the idea that they used some sort of measures most of the time.  Not sure how they might have loaded on the run, though... although any number of authors writing about such colorful characters as  Simon Kenton, the Girtys and Rangers under Maj Rogers out there on the frontier being able to load their rifles while on the run. It seems to have been something that they learned and practiced,  I just don't know they did it.

I suspect that while in a hot fight for their hair, most of the more mundane safety issues that we live by sort of went by the wayside!

[Ky-Flinter]

I agree with Taylor and Michael on the commonality and use of measures.  

I've also read accounts of "measuring" a load by cupping the hand, placing the ball in the palm of the hand, then pouring enough powder to cover the ball.  This would provide roughly the same charge each time.  I would think after using this method for a while, you could get pretty good at replicating the charge without using the ball for reference.  That would speed up the process when time was important.

As for loading on the run, I don't see how you could use a measure.  You would need 3 hands, one for the rifle, one for the measure (or palm) and one for the horn.  Maybe they used pre-rolled paper "cartridges", but more likely they just poured from the horn.

-Ron

[Joe S.]

So you don't think about folks back then where your rifle was a way of life, and sometimes your life depended on it having a feel for things whether a count in your head or just from doing it time and time again.I think they just used a powder horn alone in those cases.Perhaps when not running from injuns,bears,irate husbands ect.they may have had a measure.

[L. Akers]

The ramifications of being caught by those chasing you were much greater than the chance your horn might blow up.  Loading on the run, they would have dispensed with a patch also.

[Clark Badgett]

If you are running you are running. Stopping to fire would get you caught. Evasion is as good as running away. Authors and their subjects have been know to use artistic license. Gotta keep things interesting.

[wildthing]

All good points. Just thinking , if on the run, pouring powder down the barrel then ramming a ball ,replacing the rr and priming , you were either good or dead. To day they would have a heart attack if you tried something like that.  Wildthing

[bob in the woods]

Ist, let me say that it's easier to dump powder into the barrel from a measure or your hand than try to swing the horn enough to get it to the muzzle. The horns were usually worn rather close under the arm.  2nd, if you desperately  need that shot , i.e. load on the run, why take the time to put the ramrod back ?  I've fired my smoothbore multiple times without even using a ramrod. Powder and an undersized ball, followed by a stiff bounce of the butt on the ground and I was set.  This isn't practiced any longer at any of our shoots because of safety concerns, but 25 years ago, we did it a lot 

[Horner75]

Maybe that's the reason somebody invented belt pistols, knives, tomahawks/belt axes and bayonets!

[SCLoyalist]

The examples that come to mind of loading on the run are the horseback buffalo runners (where they presumably dumped powder from the horn down the bore, spit a ball down after the powder, and thumped the butt against the ground to seat the charge, all on a galloping horse) and Lew Wetzel's famous 'death runs' , on one of which he killed three pursuing warriors.      I would expect the old-timers to have used measures for normal situations like hunting, and resorting to more drastic measures where necessary.

[Joe S.]

I think most tend to think in terms of today,modern times when trying to think about yesteryear and it can kinda cloud your perspective.

[Cory Joe Stewart]

I think most tend to think in terms of today,modern times when trying to think about yesteryear and it can kinda cloud your perspective.

That is what I am always trying to explain to my students.  The idea of shooting fast is a modern idea.  Even the military of the 18th century focused more on efficiency and unison, than speed. 

Coryjoe

[Daniel]

  Paper cartridges . Military or not.

[michaelB.]

Bob, you know... I can remember doing that too when I first started shooting black powder in 1976 there in Knoxville when in school at UT.  Powder, an undersized ball and a good whack on the butt on the ground to seat the ball.  Didn't score as well as a nicely loaded ball with patch, but I sure remember 'being taught' to do it.

[Gun_Nut_73]

Just as a WAG, I would say an educated palm.  My grandmother and mother, who were exceptional cooks, can accurately measure salt, spices, or almost anything else, just by pouring it into the palm of their hand.  I feel the same skill would apply to pouring black powder.

[Clark Badgett]

I think most tend to think in terms of today,modern times when trying to think about yesteryear and it can kinda cloud your perspective.

That is what I am always trying to explain to my students.  The idea of shooting fast is a modern idea.  Even the military of the 18th century focused more on efficiency and unison, than speed. 

Coryjoe

Not exactly, per say. Military tactics of that era, up to and including our Civil War emphasized mass and speed, flanking and pushing the opposing force from the field of battle. Loading drills have been emphasized for efficiency and speed in just about every old manual I have been able to look through.

[Kermit]

I wonder how much we romanticize today, basing our thinking on images of longhunters, frontiersmen, and such. I don't imagine my several generations/17th-18th-19th century Massachusetts farmer ancestors thought about a need for loading on a dead run. Most colonials were farmers, tradesmen, shopkeepers, and their family members. No?

[wildthing]

They still had to keep their guns handy just in case. Many of the early farmers on the frontier had only themselves for protection. They still needed to be able to load fast enough so they could make it to some safe spot. Wildthing

[The Rambling Historian]

It is estimated that 90% of the population in 1776 were farmers. I'd venture that those on the sparsely populated far western edges of the colonies, who were always the ones most at risk, and veterans of the F&I War were probably the only ones with much experience in Native American style combat, but those closer the the shorelines likely rarely if ever saw any real violence between the major conflicts and would probably have little experience outside of European style militia training and hunting.

[Daryl]

The current circumstances would dictate exactly how and with what care, the firearm was loaded. That is only logical.

[Joe S.]

folks on the frontier I'm sure knew how to handle themselves.Be it loading on the run,evasion, or taking a stand and fighting.Those that didn't their scalps decorated somebody's lodge pole.If you didn't have the stones for that life you stayed in the city's to the east.Its obvious folks got good at surviving other wise most of us wouldn't be here.

[OldJoe]

Here's another input.  I also started this addiction in the 70's.  At the time, there wasn't much info to pick from, so Dixie Gun Works mostly supplied everything.  In the back of a catalog there was the tip of pouring powder on a ball.  When the ball was covered, that was the "right" amount.  You could take that amount and make you measure to hold it.  Since most muzzleloaders don't have a selector switch to flip it to "Rock and Roll", you had to hit what you wanted on the first shot, so having loads that are exactly the same is of great importance.  On the run, it was really pot-luck.  Pouring powder into a sweaty hand would be a really big mistake, and a measure would be to much to handle.  If you're chasing someone, stop and load it right.  If someone is chasing you, well, you're going to have to throw lead any way you can. 
Also, you have to remember that most of the Mountain Men and those prior, could teach all of us a thing or two about Bull Sh*ting so you have to take that into account.

[yardhunter]

Regarding running & reloading….
Here's a video example I enjoyed putting together last summer ( running/reloading starts at 5:29 )
of what those frontiersmen would have done for survival in hostile situations.

Hope you enjoy it:

[Clark Badgett]

Regarding running & reloading….
Here's a video example I enjoyed putting together last summer ( running/reloading starts at 5:29 )
of what those frontiersmen would have done for survival in hostile situations.

Hope you enjoy it:

Did I here you in the video say that you could walk from Philadelphia to the Kentucky forts in two weeks? At roughly 675 miles from Philadelphia to the general vicinity of the few settlements in central Kentucky, that would be 45 miles a day, every day over rough terrain. Now that's some serious hoofin.