Author Topic: Southern revolutionary rifle  (Read 6667 times)

Spyridon1219

  • Guest
Southern revolutionary rifle
« on: January 27, 2016, 03:00:14 AM »
Which style/s of rifles would most closely represent those used by southerners (GA,TN,NC) during the revolutionary war?

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2016, 03:01:48 AM »
Look at an early Jacob Dickert.   There was no particular southern style before the Revolutionary War.   The over the mountain men of the Revolutionary war would most likely have had an early PA rifle such as from Lancaster or York or any place else along the Great Wagon Road.    Early (Pre-Rev) rifles made in Virginia looked like an early Lancaster,PA rifle.   I don't think there was much rifle production south of Winston-Salem,NC prior to the Revolution and the rifles made in Winston-Salem would have looked like a Christian Springs rifle.   
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 03:22:19 AM by Mark Elliott »

Offline wormey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 196
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2016, 05:18:53 AM »
Bill Ivey`s book on North Carolina longrifles shows several revolutionary era rifles made in North Carolina.  See rifle #194 for an iron mounted example.  I agree with the earlier post on Dickert rifles as several participants in the battle of Kings Mountain claimed to have carried "Dreppard" rifles according to Lyman Draper`s book "Kings Mountain and Its Heroes" which is clearly a misrememberance of Dickert!

Offline Karl Kunkel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 977
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2016, 05:52:40 AM »

Didn't the Moravians from Christian Springs have a settlement in North Carolina, Bethabara (?)
Kunk

Offline Bill Paton

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2016, 07:19:52 AM »
Moravians went to NC founding Bethabara and Salem in the early 1750’s. Eventually made guns there.

Bill Paton
Kentucky double rifle student
wapaton.sr@gmail.com

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19538
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2016, 04:48:33 PM »
These are the dream questions for some of us, as the early rifles have a special draw.  The hard part is realizing that outside of a very few spots there are so few early rifles that can be documented to a place, that identifying a style that says "from here" is impossible.  Reading, Lancaster and Christians Spring are most prominent among the few places with multiple well-attributed originals made before or during the Revolutionary War.

If I was going to make an early rifle for that area, I would look to Wallace Gusler's articles on "black rifles" out of the valley of Virginia, his and other articles on the "Woodsrunner" rifle, the "tulip rifle", the early Haymaker rifle, and from Rifles in Colonial America, rifles numbered 118, 123, 124, 142, and the brass barreled rifle, 103.  Check those out, find one that is particularly appealing, and build based on an original. All of those are appealing to me.  If you need more info on any of these let me know as I have a collection of articles.
Andover, Vermont

Offline JCKelly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2016, 08:20:54 PM »
Oh, Rich where have these Gusler articles been published? 
Knowing the magazine & date one may find them. I believe some were in Muzzle Blasts?

Jim Kelly

Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2016, 09:36:48 PM »
There's a good one on the American Society of Arm Collectors website. Bulletin # 74 (spring 1996) Early
Rifles of the Shenandoah Valley by Wallace Gusler. Interesting article with 16 different rifles.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 09:58:49 PM by flinchrocket »

Offline Arcturus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2016, 10:51:52 PM »
Flinchrocket, thanks for the tip on the American Society of Arms Collectors site...that Gusler article is great.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 10:54:28 PM by Arcturus »
Jerry

Offline flinchrocket

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1750
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2016, 12:23:45 AM »
I learned about it while talking with Reaves Goehring at Friendship a few years ago.

Offline Mark Elliott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5191
    • Mark Elliott  Artist & Craftsman
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2016, 02:46:14 AM »
Wallace had a series of articles on Virginia iron mounted rifles in Muzzle Blasts.    I think they are listed in a thread somewhere in the archive.   

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19538
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2016, 06:22:44 PM »
Oh, Rich where have these Gusler articles been published? 
Knowing the magazine & date one may find them. I believe some were in Muzzle Blasts?

Jim Kelly

Jim, yes, Muzzle Blasts. Will look up the dates
Andover, Vermont

Offline rich pierce

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19538
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2016, 02:52:35 AM »
Here are some great magazine articles on very early rifles which could serve as inspiration for a plausible rifle to be carried in the Revolutionary War, and not linked to Pennsylvania directly.

Unattributed early Germanic rifle stocked in maple: Shumway, Muzzle Blasts June 2001.  This one is in my opinion the earliest of the lot, and no proof it's not European. Since rifles were imported as early as the 1740s this would not be a problem.

Brass barreled rifle: Gusler, Muzzle Blasts January 2003, Alexander, Muzzleloader, May/June 2005.  There's evidence for this to be dated to 1771 IIRC.

RCA #109: Shumway, Muzzle Blasts January 1981.  Recovered from England so very likely used in the Rev. War.  Some parts of Shumways article confuse me as he says it is 1.5" at the breech and .45 caliber.  Looking at the muzzle, the diameter at the muzzle could not be over .75" if that is a .45 caliber hole.  Nonetheless a great, great rifle.

Iron mounted black rifle: Gusler, Muzzle Blasts September 2003.  This walnut stocked iron mounted rifle with a jaeger-style open guard is just terrific.

Early rifle remnant: Alexander Muzzleloader May/June 2003.  To me this looks earlier than the Woodsrunner rifle because of the size and flatness of the buttplate and the mass overall of the buttstock.  I'd be very comfortable with this as early enough to be in the Revolutionary War, or 10 years earlier.

Woodsrunner rifle: Gusler, January 2003.

Tulip rifle: Shumway, Muzzle Blasts February 1998.  Rounded cheek piece is beautifully integrated into the carving or vice versa. I've handled this one and it has wonderful details and shows a lot of its working history.  Lock is a period replacement and pewter nosecap  a restoration or period replacement.  To me this one feels contemporaneous with the Marshall rifle but is unrelated.  Just a feeling.  And there is a lot of debate about dating the Marshall rifle.

Dating unsigned rifles that are singular without dated peers is always guesswork!
Andover, Vermont

Offline BOB HILL

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2283
Re: Southern revolutionary rifle
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2016, 05:10:57 AM »
Rifles Of Colonial America Volume II # 121 page 526 John Thomas' rifle may be of interest.
Bob
South Carolina Lowcountry