Files

[WKevinD]

I know it has been asked before but does anybody have a good source (sources) for files.
I need to replace my brass files (I've used most of them on iron). I also want to start replacing my ferrous metal files. I've used Boggs tool for sharpening and most of those are now wood only files.
I need to start painting my handles to keep them separate as I replace them.
Recommendations?

[JCKelly]

A couple of places are:
http://www.leevalley.com/us/   
http://www.leevalley.com/us/   

My best guess would be to buy Swiss files, German possibly second.

Files, in my opinion, are not commercially significant tools in the USA - outside of this group. Quality of Nicholson files has diminished metallurgically since about 1980. I used to call on them as the tech support guy for metals used in their heat treating & I do like to chat with the engineers. Learned a bit.

Reasons being steel mill no longer makes the very high carbon stuff (10130 and 10140, i.e. carbon steel with 1.3% and 1.4% carbon, and Our Gov't prohibits heat treaters from using the very same chemical used to keep your grocery-store brand salt from caking).

I had occasion to see at Woodcraft supplies two of the same style Nicholson files side by side. I always think Metallurgy. Yeah, maybe not here.  One "Nicholson" file made in South America was very much less expensive. The teeth appeared to my eyes to be cut much better on the pricey American file. I sprung for the one made in USA.

Buy Swiss if you can.

If you buy Asian or South American there is not point in talking about them. 

[JCKelly]

A correction. I would suggest Swiss, German, Austrian or Japanese. Japanese hand tools have a reputation for very high quality.
Japanese people have a cultural need to be perfect in everything, or else . . . been there, wish I'd have known to be more sensitive to this.

Chinese can make excellent stuff, e.g. war-planes & -ships. but normally they will be glad to tell you whatever you want to hear, but make the product however they please. Which is very, very unbelievably poor. This is true within China, as well as with the junk they ship here. Or so I hear from the metallurgist who replaced me. I've worked at educating him, decent success. We chat now & again, as I consider his high-temperature education to still be under (Ruger-style of) warranty.

Personally I would tend to avoid South American or Indian.

The two sources I noted are well known to many on this site, and have product from central European and Japanese producers.

[Tenn Hills Guy]

Interesting!  I had been working on a monoblock....4140..filing with one of my older Nicholson files.  Thought it was time for a new one and bought another Nicholson at my local Lowe's.  That thing would barely touch the metal.  Set it aside..maybe it'll work on brass.  Quality just doesn't seem to be there.

[David Rase]

I recently ordered a bunch of Grobet  files from Armstrong Tool and Supply  http://www.armstrongtoolsupply.com/files.html  and was very pleased.
David

[Dennis Glazener]

I know it has been asked before but does anybody have a good source (sources) for files.

If you are patient you can find great buys on Grobet files on ebay. I have found some really good buys, my favorite is a 6" knife file, great on trigger guards.
Dennis

[Bob Roller]

Interesting!  I had been working on a monoblock....4140..filing with one of my older Nicholson files.  Thought it was time for a new one and bought another Nicholson at my local Lowe's.  That thing would barely touch the metal.  Set it aside..maybe it'll work on brass.  Quality just doesn't seem to be there.

I also recently bought a new Nicholson file at a local hardware store and it was already worn out when I took it out of the blister pack.I E mailed the company and told them I was TIRED of seeing old and honored American tools reduced to the status of junk before they were ever used. No reply,needless to say.

Bob Roller

[dogcatcher]

I use Boggs Tools to sharpen my old files and since I found out that they sell new files I will also buy all of my files from them.  http://www.boggstool.com/page18.html

[moleeyes36]

I know it has been asked before but does anybody have a good source (sources) for files.

If you are patient you can find great buys on Grobet files on ebay. I have found some really good buys, my favorite is a 6" knife file, great on trigger guards.
Dennis

I recently ordered a bunch of Grobet  files from Armstrong Tool and Supply  http://www.armstrongtoolsupply.com/files.html  and was very pleased.
David

I'm not very knowledgeable about the different cuts listed for needle files.  I need to replace some of my needle files (don't know what cut they are) and when I looked on the Armstrong Tool site at some of the Grobet needle files they show 0, 2, 4, and 6 as the cuts available.  What type of tasks are the different cuts used for?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[JCurtiss]

A correction. I would suggest Swiss, German, Austrian or Japanese. Japanese hand tools have a reputation for very high quality.
Japanese people have a cultural need to be perfect in everything, or else . . . been there, wish I'd have known to be more sensitive to this.

Chinese can make excellent stuff, e.g. war-planes & -ships. but normally they will be glad to tell you whatever you want to hear, but make the product however they please. Which is very, very unbelievably poor. This is true within China, as well as with the junk they ship here. Or so I hear from the metallurgist who replaced me. I've worked at educating him, decent success. We chat now & again, as I consider his high-temperature education to still be under (Ruger-style of) warranty.

Personally I would tend to avoid South American or Indian.

Great summary!

The two sources I noted are well known to many on this site, and have product from central European and Japanese producers.

[Willbarq]

I have a PDF ref guide to files I downloaded from the internet. A particular tool supply company has made it up ,so I am not sure I could post it here. I am sure other would find it useful.  Oh heck they can always erase it. http://www.kmstools.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/KMS_File-ID-Chart.pdf  It's a PDF

[JCurtiss]

A correction. I would suggest Swiss, German, Austrian or Japanese. Japanese hand tools have a reputation for very high quality.
Japanese people have a cultural need to be perfect in everything, or else . . . been there, wish I'd have known to be more sensitive to this.

Chinese can make excellent stuff, e.g. war-planes & -ships. but normally they will be glad to tell you whatever you want to hear, but make the product however they please. Which is very, very unbelievably poor. This is true within China, as well as with the junk they ship here. Or so I hear from the metallurgist who replaced me. I've worked at educating him, decent success. We chat now & again, as I consider his high-temperature education to still be under (Ruger-style of) warranty.

Personally I would tend to avoid South American or Indian.

Great summary!

The two sources I noted are well known to many on this site, and have product from central European and Japanese producers.

Great summary!

[flatsguide]

Try Gesswein.

[moleeyes36]

I appreciate all the information supplied about sources for files; I've dealt with some of them in the past.  But my question is about the different cuts for files as I don't know much about that subject.  I see the cuts for needle files mostly listed as 0, 2, 4, and 6 and I'm guessing that 0 is the most course and 6 is the most fine cut.  I have a 35 plus year old set of 12 assorted Swiss made needle files from Craftsman that are ready to retire.  I have no idea what cut they are, though there seems to be a couple of different cuts in the set.

I need needle files for use on both brass and steel gun furniture, sights, etc.  I intend to get files for steel and others just for use on brass.  What is the cut(s) I would find most beneficial for use on steel and which cuts would be most useful on brass?  Information from some of you experienced builders out there would be much appreciated.  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

[WKevinD]

Moleeyes I found some worthwhile info here http://www.simondsint.com/handfiles/HAND%20FILES%20PUBLICATIONS/File%20Facts.pdf hope it helps.

There has been some good info provided...now to sort and gather all the info, thanks all.

[moleeyes36]

Moleeyes I found some worthwhile info here http://www.simondsint.com/handfiles/HAND%20FILES%20PUBLICATIONS/File%20Facts.pdf hope it helps.

There has been some good info provided...now to sort and gather all the info, thanks all.

I have a PDF ref guide to files I downloaded from the internet. A particular tool supply company has made it up ,so I am not sure I could post it here. I am sure other would find it useful.  Oh heck they can always erase it. http://www.kmstools.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/KMS_File-ID-Chart.pdf  It's a PDF

Guys, thanks for the information; it's interesting and I appreciate it.  I've spent a lot of time on the Grobet site as well trying to gather data on the different cuts available on Swiss pattern needle files.  I hate to spend the money to buy an assortment of different high quality Swiss made needle files just to find out which ones are the best for work on both brass and steel gun furniture, sights, etc.  So I'm still trying to find the data (without much luck) to answer the question.  "What is the cut(s) I would find most beneficial for use on steel and which cuts would be most useful on brass?"

Mole Eyes

[Bob Roller]

Moleeyes I found some worthwhile info here http://www.simondsint.com/handfiles/HAND%20FILES%20PUBLICATIONS/File%20Facts.pdf hope it helps.

There has been some good info provided...now to sort and gather all the info, thanks all.

I have a PDF ref guide to files I downloaded from the internet. A particular tool supply company has made it up ,so I am not sure I could post it here. I am sure other would find it useful.  Oh heck they can always erase it. http://www.kmstools.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/KMS_File-ID-Chart.pdf  It's a PDF

Guys, thanks for the information; it's interesting and I appreciate it.  I've spent a lot of time on the Grobet site as well trying to gather data on the different cuts available on Swiss pattern needle files.  I hate to spend the money to buy an assortment of different high quality Swiss made needle files just to find out which ones are the best for work on both brass and steel gun furniture, sights, etc.  So I'm still trying to find the data (without much luck) to answer the question.  "What is the cut(s) I would find most beneficial for use on steel and which cuts would be most useful on brass?"

Mole Eyes

While I haven't done a LOT with brass,as I recall the files I used for steel were as good as needed IF they were old American made ones. This new stuff with old and ONCE HONORED American names are now worn out when taken from the blister pack they come in. Waste of money.

Bob Roller

[Acer Saccharum]

"What is the cut(s) I would find most beneficial for use on steel and which cuts would be most useful on brass?"

This is a 'trial and error' and opinion kind of process.

I've found that coarse files work best on brass. 00 or 0. My favorite pattern is a tapered half round swiss, 6" long. I seldom use the rounded side.

Do not buy sets. You'll end up with files you never use.



Acer's recommendation:

An 8" half round in #0 would be great for trigger guards and buttplates. A half round #2 cut in 6" for finish filing.

Needle files: half round, triangular, round, flat (pillar?), square  in 0 for brass. Get same shapes in #2 cut for finishing.

Do not use your brass files on steel if you want continued performance on brass. Also don't let your files bang around against each other on the bench or in a drawer.

[crankshaft]

 With the used Nitric Acid I rekkon it would be fine to make Aqua Fortis ?  I still have some I made some back ion the day when it was not commercially available from  Waukon Bay?

[moleeyes36]

"What is the cut(s) I would find most beneficial for use on steel and which cuts would be most useful on brass?"

This is a 'trial and error' and opinion kind of process.

I've found that coarse files work best on brass. 00 or 0. My favorite pattern is a tapered half round swiss, 6" long. I seldom use the rounded side.

Do not buy sets. You'll end up with files you never use.



Acer's recommendation:

An 8" half round in #0 would be great for trigger guards and buttplates. A half round #2 cut in 6" for finish filing.

Needle files: half round, triangular, round, flat (pillar?), square  in 0 for brass. Get same shapes in #2 cut for finishing.

Do not use your brass files on steel if you want continued performance on brass. Also don't let your files bang around against each other on the bench or in a drawer.

Acer,

Thank you, that is exactly the kind of information I was seeking.

Mole Eyes

[flatsguide]

Burnt, it may help to be more specific and let us know what you want to file. When you get into metal files there is, as you probably found out, a vast amount of files varying in quality, length, shape and cut. So for me, my thought process for filing is,how am I going to hold the part then if it is a good quality steel in vestment casting like a hammer I would start with my grobet  3 inch cut needle files in # 2 cut to clean the casting and refine the shape followed by a 4 cut then a 6 cut.     I would say that the smalles cut size would be determined by the quality of finish you want. Like clamps, you can't have enough of these "Swiss mills"
Richard.
Acre just posted some good info. Also break in your new files by filing a few strokes on som brass scrap before you use them on steel.

[David Rase]

I know it has been asked before but does anybody have a good source (sources) for files.

If you are patient you can find great buys on Grobet files on ebay. I have found some really good buys, my favorite is a 6" knife file, great on trigger guards.
Dennis

I recently ordered a bunch of Grobet  files from Armstrong Tool and Supply  http://www.armstrongtoolsupply.com/files.html  and was very pleased.
David

I'm not very knowledgeable about the different cuts listed for needle files.  I need to replace some of my needle files (don't know what cut they are) and when I looked on the Armstrong Tool site at some of the Grobet needle files they show 0, 2, 4, and 6 as the cuts available.  What type of tasks are the different cuts used for?  Thanks.

Mole Eyes

Here is a link to the Grobet on-line precision file catalog. 

[/quote]https://view.publitas.com/p222-4917/grobet-usa-precision-file-catalog/page/1

It contains some pretty good descriptions of file makeup.  I have six each needle files in 2 and 00.  That gives me a course file for removing metal more aggressively and a fine file for smoothing.  I also ordered a set of the encampment files which are a nice balance between full size files and needle files.  I like the square handles on them.
David 

[longcruise]

This is an enlightening discussion for me.  If we were to have a contest for who is the biggest file abuser on ALR,   I know I would win (and not talking about girth even though I'd be a contender there too!).

Mine are used alternately on steel, brass,  wood and fiberglass!  I'm going to send the whole lot off to boggs and while they are gone maybe join a support group.  Wait a minute, I'm already in a best support group around;  ALR!

[moleeyes36]

Here is a link to the Grobet on-line precision file catalog. 

[/quote]https://view.publitas.com/p222-4917/grobet-usa-precision-file-catalog/page/1

It contains some pretty good descriptions of file makeup.  I have six each needle files in 2 and 00.  That gives me a course file for removing metal more aggressively and a fine file for smoothing.  I also ordered a set of the encampment files which are a nice balance between full size files and needle files.  I like the square handles on them.
David 
[/quote]

Thanks, Dave, I downloaded that catalog.  Base on the inputs from you, Acer, and flatsguide I can start building up my file collection as my budget allows.  The doctor said I can start working in the shop again as long as I don't stay on my feet too long.  I need to get going again on that Phillip Gillespie rifle shown in Dennis' book.  I'll try out some of those files on the trigger guard you made for me for that rifle.  Thanks to all for the inputs.

Mole Eyes

[BOB HILL]

I received a Woodcraft flyer in the mail today. They have all of their files and rasps on sale until March 3,
2016. Don't know if they have anything any of you may be interested in. I see the Shinto rasps in the picture.

Bob