Cleaning my .40 cal. rifle

[Daryl]

I use soap and water not so much for the powder fouling, but the patch lube. The same reason for hot water.

Put some butter on a dish and run cool water over it. Nothing happens. Run warm water and not much happens. Change to hot water and it comes right off clean. I get the same reaction with my patch lube.

I should add one thing that I didn't mention in my first post. I live in an apartment, so I clean in the kitchen in a bucket. At the strat of cleaning I turn one burner of the stove on. (electric) After cleaning and drying the bore with dry patches I used to worry about the breech be wet. So, I hold the breech end of the barrel over the burner to warm it up and dry any water left. Do that along with some Ballistol in the flushing water rinse has kept everything clean and rust free. I use Ballistol on the inside and outside of the barrel to prevent rust. I even use it on the stock to perk it up.

Then before I shoot I run an alcohol patch down the bore, then a dry patch. Shoot two caps, and i'm ready to shoot.

I don't use butter for lube, or bore butter - so no hot water is needed. Hot water causes flash rusting in many ML barrels.

I do use Neetsfoot oil and Trcks mink oil for lube- sometimes.
  
I rely upon the teachings of an established & world famous British Gun Making Company for this advice to use cold or cool water only for BP fouling.

Their formulate cleans all the fouling from my bores - hot water is not needed.

 This particular British gun making company has been making FINE guns in England since the mid 1800's, muzzleloaders, single barrels, rifles and shotguns, double barreled rifles and shotguns, then breech loading BP rifles and shotguns, single shots and double barreled guns until into the 1990's, then into the 20th century with modern guns, single and doubles, bolt actions as well: guns that sell for hundreds of thousands of American dollars.  They are Holland and Holland, & are still making guns today - not to be confused with the brand new modern USA manufacturer of ML barrels who used their name - you might ask, though, why! They are not affiliated.

They gave this cold water advice to a close friend of mine, who owned several of their double barreled black powder guns and who wished to keep them in top condition. Will showed me the letter he received from Holland and Holland on cleaning his most valuable black powder rifles and I follow and advise that direction today.  In now 40 years since he received that letter, I've never had a spot of rust in any of my many/several muzzle loaders nor the ctg. guns in which I shoot Black Powder.

If your method works for you - GREAT! I will still advise what H&H said to use in valuable black powder rifles and shotguns.

[OldMtnMan]

I mentioned butter to show how hot water will dissolve it better than cooler water. I was talking about real butter, and suggested it because I figured everybody would have it. I would never use it for lube, or especially bore butter.

I also used TOW Mink Oil for years and recommended it. I now use bear tallow and beeswax.

I agree flash rusting can happen with hot water. That's why I put some Ballistol in the water. It seems to stop the flash rusting until I get the bore dry. Which is much easier with hot water.

It could be I don't need hot water. Maybe the same thing about soap. I do get snow white patches when i'm done, and continue to get them until the next time I shoot. Maybe I can get the same thing with cold water and no soap. Maybe i'll try it next time to see. I do like how quick the bore dries with hot water though.

I'm old, but i'm not stubborn. I'm always open to try something new.

[OldMtnMan]

Old Mountainman, I have one of those brushes, too, but when I give the tow a few turns after having the patches on my jag come out clean, there is still some fouling on the breech plug that doesn't get removed by the brush.   Using both gets the job done.

I'll give it a try. I always wanted to try tow for cleaning. My gun is a JBMR. It must have a large hole going in the breech area. If I push a bare ramrod down the bore it actually gets stuck in the hole. Even with a patch on a jag I can feel it go in the hole slightly.

[Martin S.]

I would only add that I use tow on a worm to scrub the breech plug, because patches on a jag don't make much contact with it.  If anything, the patch/jag combo pushes fouling down onto the plug.  I don't like to take my gun apart to do the flush in a bucket method, but that does a good job in cleaning the breech plug and flushing the vent or nipple.

What is "tow"?

[OldMtnMan]

I would only add that I use tow on a worm to scrub the breech plug, because patches on a jag don't make much contact with it.  If anything, the patch/jag combo pushes fouling down onto the plug.  I don't like to take my gun apart to do the flush in a bucket method, but that does a good job in cleaning the breech plug and flushing the vent or nipple.

What is "tow"?

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38766.0

[sqrldog]

Mossyhorns
For years Frank Bartlett sold his patch lube / cleaner to Dixie Gun Works in 55 gal. drums. It was if my memory is correct low sudsing soap and water soluble machinist oil at a rate of five or six ounces of each to a gallon of water. Frank had about a pint of rendered bear oil and after each 55 gal. drum was filled he added a teaspoon of bear grease. That way the label could say contains genuine bear grease. Frank said you had to be conscious of the truth in advertising law.😊 I still use the same mixture to clean and target shoot, but use a grease based patch lube to hunt with with as water will rust a bore if left for any length of time be it hot or cold. The soap we once used in the mixture was Amway LOC (liquid organic cleaner) not even sure if it's available anymore. I miss his knowledge and humor greatly, but miss his friendship even more. Tim

[John Archer]

As Daryl says...cold or cool water only for BP fouling. Many soaps, including Murphy's contain KOH..potassium hydroxide which is corrosive to metals and tissue.

John.

[WadePatton]

As Daryl says...cold or cool water only for BP fouling. Many soaps, including Murphy's contain KOH..potassium hydroxide which is corrosive to metals and tissue.

John.

I've left iron skillets in solutions of KOH for months. It won't hurt them.  That's my favorite way to begin restoration of one that is overly crusty.  I used to trade in them and amassed a decent collection, and tried many methods of stripping them back to metal.  For my purposes a tub of lye is best.

Soap cannot be made without KOH or NaOH (lyes), but the soapmaker always calculates for a surplus of fats/oils so that the chemical reaction consumes ALL of the lye and only has fats/oils left over (plus whatever other additives one might employ).  Properly made soap has zero residual KOH or NaOH in it, but will have fats left over.

That's how I unnerstand it thus far and I've made a few batches of soap with both KOH and NaOH and all sorts of fats/oils.


NOW for bore cleaning, I am of the tow, worm, and water camp.  

We're the TWW clan yo.  

+++++++++++
Whoa a minute, I missed this one before:

A bronze brush!     If you use only patches, just run a bronze brush ...

I've read way too many stories of getting bronze brushes stuck in bores to ever even consider bronze brushing my bore.  Bronze brushes work best when they don't have to change directions in a bore.  If you're going to try this, probably want to be real careful with your brush sizing and rod selection.  I've worn out a lot of bore brushes, but not in the black powder realm, used gallons of copper solvent too...  

[Daryl]

I do not use bronze brushes in my MLs and as a matter of fact, I no longer use them in my modern guns either. The proper solvents work perfectly and the brushing of old, is just not needed - at all.

What I have heard, is that if you twist the rod - clockwise  (same direction tightening the brush in the barrel) as you pull the bronze brush back out of a ML barrel, it will reverse direction without harming the barrel. I still won't even try - I've not found it to be needed.

Now further to the use of bronze brushes in ML barrels - we use ML barrels that are normally are much SOFTER steel than modern gun steels - yet NO accuracy shooter would EVER even think about reversing a bronze brush in their modern pet rifle's barrel - we should all wonder why!

[OldMtnMan]

I don't need to use a brush very often, but when I do I use this one. It's made to reverse and does that easily.

http://www.octobercountry.com/msm-bore-brushes/

[Kary]

I have us everything from plain water, soapy water, cold water..and hot water. I got rust in my barrel from all of those methods previously mentioned... Even after scrubbing down with wd-40. It seems my water softener was and is the culprit... So I came up with a mixture of murphys oil soap, denatured alcohol, and ammonia.... 1 part of each. It cleans very well and u can use it as a patch lube. I still scrub the barrel with wd-40 after and use a paraffin based oil for long term storage.
Just my 2 cents

[Molly]

Slow day at the home/farm I guess.  All comes down to personal preferences but the idea of a brush seems to have more traction that when I raised the question months ago.  Only objections to brushes are:  "Don't need to" and "they can come apart and get stuck in the bore".

Seems to me that the brushes ToW sells are slightly undersized than what you get at most local stores and they are not the crimped kind so coming apart is unlikely.  Brushes are my friends.

[OldMtnMan]

Trust me. If you use a brush. Use the one I posted above. It's the best one made and will never come apart, or get stuck. Read the description in the link.

I'm not sure what TOW sells? If it's the same one then it's good.

[Daryl]

Could be that brushes might be necessary for those who use what we would consider loose ball and patch combinations.  Those who don't use such 'weak' combinations do not get any fouling buildup in the corners of the lands, thus do not need brushes.

[OldMtnMan]

Some use lead conicals. I had to when hunting with a .45. A .40 PRB isn't legal for big game in Colorado.

[yardhunter]

Here's what I do to clean my gun…..usually in about 10-12 minutes. .
It's work for me 2 years now…..
Good luck…….

[Vomitus]

   Cold water, wd40 for dispersal, flannelette for drying. Wash lock in cold water too,use a toothbrush. Dry and lube lock mechanism.(with Amsoil 20-50)...it's all I got,lol.
             Simple