Two Percussion Rifles that need ID

[30Advance]

I was rummaging through an antique store the other day and came across these two Percussion rifles. They are both quite rough but I am intrigued by the lower one mostly because it is signed. Looks like "S Shaw??? The upper rifle is about 50 cal. and has a very heavy barrel with the back-action lock. It also has had some amateur repairs over the years.

The lower rifle may have been converted to Percussion and has about a 38" barrel at about 40 cal. Sorry, I had no tape measure with me. The stock repair in the wrist looks cool and the patchbox is intriguing.

Any insight would be appreciated, I may try to pick up the 40 cal. if I can scare up the funds. Wish I had a few more pictures.

Thanks in Advance!
Dave

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Dave,

Welcome to ALR.  I'm not an expert on antiques, but some will be along shortly, I'm sure.  

I took the liberty to add the IMG code to your post so your pictures would display.  You can do this when you post, by clicking the little picture icon (above the message box) when you type or paste your picture links.

-Ron

[Majorjoel]

Hello Dave, and welcome.  The upper rifle could be a late Lancaster with the patchbox details that are shown. The lower piece has a patchbox that has been seen here before on a couple of occasions. I believe that JTR had a similar rifle here a few years back. IIRC it was from a New York gunsmith. Not saying that is the case with your pictured rifle, as the later you get into the percussion era, parts seem to travel all over the place.   Good luck with your dealings with the antique shop and hopefully you can get the price whittled down in your favor a bit more! 

[JTR]

I can't be much help, but I do have a rifle with pretty much the same patchbox, including engraving, as does the lower rifle.

Sellers lists an S & J Shaw, percussion rifle, unlocated in Tennessee. However, I'm not familiar enough with Tenn made guns to say if that a Tenn made gun or not. This is the gun that Joel mentions, and is somewhat similar in that it has the pinched tail on the lock and sideplate moldings, at one time had a similar high comb, and maybe has a similar line to the cheek piece design. Mine also has the same style of engraving that is on the patchbox of the lower gun, but mine has it on the butt plate, trigger guard, toe plate, etc as well. I can't see if the one you're looking at does or not.

Majorjoel mentions a New York possibility, but my gun is unsigned or the name rusted away, so was just a guess.
John

 

[30Advance]

Thanks KY Flinter for fixing my photos. I couldn't figure out how to make that work. I did it before when I posted pics of my Tennessee rifle several months ago. I wish these were in better condition, kinda makes me wonder if I should pursue them but if the price is right, well, then maybe.

I knew I had seen pics of a rifle like the lower one before. thanks for the pics JTR. Yours is a nice rifle.

Dave

[Dennis Glazener]

I suspect the top rifle is a Hampshire County WV rifle.
Dennis

[homerifle]

I suspect the top rifle is a Hampshire County WV rifle.
Dennis

I agree with Dennis.
The stock profile looks Hampshire County and that style box was used here and in the Shenandoah valley.

[Avlrc]

The top rifle looks Hampshire County WV. Look real good for a worn signature.

[Bob Roller]

I can't be much help, but I do have a rifle with pretty much the same patchbox, including engraving, as does the lower rifle.

Sellers lists an S & J Shaw, percussion rifle, unlocated in Tennessee. However, I'm not familiar enough with Tenn made guns to say if that a Tenn made gun or not. This is the gun that Joel mentions, and is somewhat similar in that it has the pinched tail on the lock and sideplate moldings, at one time had a similar high comb, and maybe has a similar line to the cheek piece design. Mine also this type of engraving that is on the patchbox on the butt plate, trigger guard, toe plate, etc. I can't see if the one you're looking at does or not.

Majorjoel mentions a New York possibility, but my gun is unsigned or the name rusted away, so was just a guess.

John

 

One thing is certain. WHOEVER made this had more than a vague idea about what he wanted and this is a fine example of a well preserved old rifle.

Bob Roller

[JCKelly]

JTR - The cheek inlay on your rifle calls to mind one used by Joseph Daniels, Sr., Barbour Co, Virginia.  Long Rifles of Virginia, Butler and Whisker, page 21

Only other book I know showing more artistic inlays, not just the typical oval or star used in Pennsylvania, is that Elliot and Whisker book on Georgia arms.

Is anything published on Tennessee rifles, other than the iron mounted "mountain rifles"

[Dennis Glazener]

James B. Whisker Longrifle Books

The five books listed below are available directly from James B Whisker
Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Tennessee
Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Missouri
Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Virginia
Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Georgia [w/ Wayne Elliott]
Gunsmiths & Allied Tradesmen of Alabama [w/Thomas E. Kilgo]

These are $25 each ppd and can be ordered from
James B Whisker/ 338 E Main St/ Everett, PA 15537
**********************************************
http://www.amazon.com/Gunmakers-Buffalo-Valley-Tennessee-Paperback/dp/B00RWSVEAI
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http://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/B023_hALE.pdf
**********************************************

[Mike Brooks]

I suspect the top rifle is a Hampshire County WV rifle.
Dennis

Ditto. The other I would guess Kentucky although if Shaw is ID'd with TN I'd go with that too. I like the top rifle better.

[garra]

In my American Firearms Makers by A Merwyn Carey they list an Albert S Shaw in Morrow County, OH 1840-1851.

[GrampaJack]

I believe a rifle sold in one of the Old Barn auctions within the past year that had either the same or very similar patchbox as the Shaw gun. I think it might have been an Ohio gun.  Unfortunately I didn't save the catalogs and only the last sale is still on their web site. If anyone saved the catalogs it will probably be possible to find a picture and description. Jack