Author Topic: aging brass whats the best  (Read 7040 times)

Offline yip

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aging brass whats the best
« on: February 03, 2016, 09:13:04 PM »
what's the best way to age a brass patch box? a friend has a very shiny patch box and wants to age it, any help?

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2016, 09:17:04 PM »
Easy fix, when you clean your rifle after a shoot, take the blackest patches and rub it all over the box. It will do a fine job in quick order.
Dennis
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2016, 09:26:36 PM »
Don't use ammonia.
It does an excellent job of aging brass.
If left too long it will CRACK your brass. Especially brass that has been cold rolled or formed.

The Brits first learned this whilst bringing the Light of Western Civilization to the Indian subcontinent. With their .577 Snyders. By golly, the brass cartridge cases developed cracks during the monsoon season. So they called it "season cracking"
Monsoon means a lot of rain.
Gotta store those .577 cartridges under a roof somewhere.
Not the officers' quarters!
Ah, so they kept them in the horse barn.
Horse urine (like cat urine, mouse urine &c) has, or breaks down into, nitrogen compounds.
That crack brass.
A friend of mine who is now a retired gunmaker decided to age some brass thimbles, hanging them above some ammonia in a container. They cracked. He told me then he recalled that Kelly had said something about ammonia and brass.
Engineers have to re-learn this every 50 years or so. I have a nice old British book that warns against keeping your auto in the horse barn. Autos used to have nickel plated brass trim.
The National Association of Corrosion Engineers published an article on brass valve parts that cracked. Because of mice. This was maybe 10 or 20 years ago, mislaid article.

Black gunpowder fouling contains sulphur compounds that blacken brass very nicely. There are also about one Zillion commercial products and recipes for your own stuff.

Just don't use ammonia.

Thom

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2016, 09:41:06 PM »
I have used Ferric Nitrate and Sulphurated Potash. It's not too aggressive, and easy to control.

http://www.sciencecompany.com/Patina-Formulas-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Copper.aspx

You may not be looking for something as as aggressive as Patina formulas. "Blackest patches" may be more what you're looking for.
Thom
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 09:46:47 PM by Thom »

Offline WKevinD

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 10:24:15 PM »
I agree with the black patch. It has become part of my cleaning ritual after test firing a new gun. If it is too much age for you, you can buff it back with 0000 steel wool.
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Offline smylee grouch

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 11:18:32 PM »
You can also blacken brass with cold blue, then rub it back with a green scotch pab.

Offline Hank*in*WV

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2016, 01:18:19 AM »
Easy fix, when you clean your rifle after a shoot, take the blackest patches and rub it all over the box. It will do a fine job in quick order.
Dennis


I take those same patches and rub them on my barrels. it takes awhile and results in a nice patina that doesn't look applied.
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Offline Stoner creek

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2016, 02:44:30 AM »

Brownell's 4440 gun blue will do the trick. Rub on and card off with 0000 steel wool.
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Offline Cory Joe Stewart

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2016, 03:35:47 AM »
What I do is similar to the patch method.  I take a little bit of powder and mix is with spit and rub it on the brass parts.  If you mix it with water it will just run off.  It will knock the shine off.

Coryjoe

Offline Nate McKenzie

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2016, 03:41:25 AM »
Many of the cold blues I've tried make it almost black.  Brownell's Oxpho Blue makes it more of a brown color.

Offline mossyhorn

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2016, 04:40:24 AM »
Will the black patch quicken the aging process on steel barrels and other steel hardware. Does the steel need to be rubbed with some degreasing agent before the patch application and oiled later.
Jerry Dickerson

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2016, 07:44:56 AM »
 There is a commercial product.  It is called liver of sulfur. It is available in a stable, long lasting form as a gel. Just do a search for liver of sulfur gel.   It has been used for sometime by jewelers to add a patina  to nonferrous metals.

Online Longshot

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2016, 03:22:27 PM »
I've found that a burned patch will start to darken brass in the direction toward black, while a paste made up of Miracle Grow and water will give it an aged, slightly blue tinged tone.
Depends on what you're after.

Offline J Henry

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2016, 03:39:57 PM »
  yip been my experience if you just leave it along it will "age" Might have to remove the "varnish"/ Quarter Master, off it to let the atmosphere get to it..so MFG. put a clear varnish/finish on brass so it doesn't "age"

Offline retired fella

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 06:18:51 PM »
Back in the day we used to use Brasso to cut the varnish off our buckles and brass
and when no one was looking we would burn it off with lighter fluid.  I guess they didn't want us to burn down the barracks.

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 06:49:09 PM »
There is a commercial product.  It is called liver of sulfur. It is available in a stable, long lasting form as a gel. Just do a search for liver of sulfur gel.   It has been used for sometime by jewelers to add a patina  to nonferrous metals.

I tried some of that liver of sulfur gel. Followed the directions and watched a couple of You-tube videos on the topic. I found that diluting the gel, heating the solution, doing everything recommended, there was only a very puny reaction on both rolled sheet brass and cast brass/bronze. So I threw away the directions and applied the gel directly without dilution. Still almost no color change. This was after thorough degreasing and even fine sanding of the brass to expose fresh metal. I did apply the stuff over a nosecap that was held in place by a copper rivet. The copper immediately turned jet black, but the brass was almost untouched. If anyone (Mark?) knows if I'm doing it wrong, let me know. Otherwise I'll keep using either cold blue solutions or Birchwood Casey Brass Black, both of which work.

Gregg

Offline davec2

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2016, 11:34:33 PM »
This works better than anything I have used.....easy, quick...does a great job.  Jim Kibler uses it.  What else needs to be said.

https://www.historichouseparts.com/pdshop/shop/search.aspx?sfield=keywords&search=brass+darkening+solution
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Offline davebozell

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2016, 12:20:10 AM »
X2 what Dave said.  It will turn brass black in just a couple minutes when submerged. Also puts an interesting finish on steel, but only needs to be rubbed on.   Worked great for me.

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2016, 06:43:18 AM »
There is a commercial product.  It is called liver of sulfur. It is available in a stable, long lasting form as a gel. Just do a search for liver of sulfur gel.   It has been used for sometime by jewelers to add a patina  to nonferrous metals.

I tried some of that liver of sulfur gel. Followed the directions and watched a couple of You-tube videos on the topic. I found that diluting the gel, heating the solution, doing everything recommended, there was only a very puny reaction on both rolled sheet brass and cast brass/bronze. So I threw away the directions and applied the gel directly without dilution. Still almost no color change. This was after thorough degreasing and even fine sanding of the brass to expose fresh metal. I did apply the stuff over a nosecap that was held in place by a copper rivet. The copper immediately turned jet black, but the brass was almost untouched. If anyone (Mark?) knows if I'm doing it wrong, let me know. Otherwise I'll keep using either cold blue solutions or Birchwood Casey Brass Black, both of which work.

Gregg

It won't turn brass black and it is slow, but I like the control for restoration work.   I do brush it on and find that is necessary for a darker color.  If I wanted black, there are certainly other things I would use.

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2016, 07:53:07 AM »
Perhaps an experiment is required.  We all know that black powder tarnishes brass because of the sulfur smoke.  Well, why not build a chamber to do just that?  Suspend the brass in the chamber, seal it, and ignite a tiny bit of powder in it.  Remove it a couple hours later and see what we have. This would be about the most natural finish that could be attained, if we are trying to emulate usage. 

Matt

Offline Robert Wolfe

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2016, 06:06:05 PM »
Matt,
I've set off powder in a cardboard box with my parts in it and it does work but the results are somewhat hit or miss. A dirty patch is much more controllable.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 06:06:47 PM by Robert Wolfe »
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Offline Pete G.

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2016, 07:33:22 PM »
Matt,
I've set off powder in a cardboard box with my parts in it and it does work but the results are somewhat hit or miss. A dirty patch is much more controllable.


The dirty patch may be more controllable, but is not nearly as much fun as blowing up a box.
Nevertheless, I always use cold blue rubbed back with steel wool.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: aging brass whats the best
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2016, 07:37:58 PM »
" aging brass, what's the best "    Time & use  ;)