Set Trigger?

[Eric Krewson]

When you guys inlet double set triggers, how close to the sear do you inlet to with your trigger bars? I have my front and back trigger bars hitting exactly like the picture in the tutorial.



Should I go deeper to have less creep on the front trigger and less trigger pull by having it striking closer to the pivot pin.

I am building a tennessee rifle and could go deeper as I left a little wood on the belly for adjustments.

This is my first build with double set triggers, I have used single triggers in the past.

[retired fella]

When the set is tripped does it also trip the sear?  If so if you have too much play in the front trigger (using as a single trigger) can you build that plate up to reduce your trigger creep?

[Eric Krewson]

Both triggers work great, the lock goes off like it should.

[retired fella]

I'd say you got'er done.  Send pictures as you go.  I would be interested.

[bama]

What you have shown is the correct arrangement for a double lever double set trigger. This arrangement will allow the sear to be tripped with the triggers set or unset. You can set the arrangement deeper into the stock, you may have to reduce the height of the trigger bars so the lock can be cocked without setting the set trigger.

[frogwalking]

On the same line of wondering: My last rifle or two were set up very similar to this.  The triggers worked perfectly set, and also worked using the front trigger in the unset condition.  The rifle could be cocked, set or unset.  The unset trigger pull was (and is) heavier than desirable.   Is this simply a result of obtaining the fine trigger in the set condition, or can the double set, double acting triggers be installed so that the front trigger will break smooth, reasonably light, with little creep?

[smylee grouch]

Your front trigger's pull weight is so probably because it does't have the leverage it needs for a decent pull weight and the trigger contacts the sear in less that ideal spot. It is probably (the front trigger) too low and contacts the sear too far to the rear.

[Mark Elliott]

 If it is working leave it alone.  In order to get a lighter front trigger pull you will have to go deeper but that is going to cause a problem with too much pressure  on the sear from the rear trigger. I now routinely install a stop  screw for the rear trigger spring so that I can easily eliminate that problem.  Most original double set triggers did not have a bar on the front trigger.  That realy simplified trigger installation.

[M. E. Pering]

It really depends on what you are shooting for, Eric (no pun intended).  A deeper level means removing more wood from the stock, which could weaken it a bit, but then again, you have a lot of play in the front trigger it looks like.  Myself, I like very little play in the trigger, whether a simple trigger or set.  It also looks like you aren't going to get that much leverage from the single trigger mode.  I think I would want the trigger set moved back a little bit more, to give a greater mechanical advantage, but I like a light trigger pull.  But when using a double set like this, it may not be important.  You can always use the set trigger and adjust for your ounces of pull.  

Going deeper would give less trigger play, but would not help with mechanical advantage.  Moving the assembly back would require deeper inletting for less trigger play, but would give better mechanical advantage.  It really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

Most guns I make have a simple trigger made for them, meaning that there is no set or anything.  They require about 8 ozs. of pull, so they are light, but not too light, and at 32 F, They have almost no play.  Nothing against the set triggers, but unless you are building for target work, they are really not required, unless you are trying to make an exact copy of a particular prototype.  Lots of Tennessees had a simple trigger.

This also requires that you think about the architecture of the stock... Will moving it up or back change things to a point where it won't be right?  I think it is a hard question, but one that is absolutely solvable.  You could also add or subtract metal from the trigger mechanism itself, to achieve what you are shooting for.

Matt

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

The triggers/sear relationship is just fine.  But your drawing is not to scale, I hope.  If that is the correct size of the lock, you have way too much wood along the bottom of your stock.  I suspect it is not.  A photo would tell me a lot more.

[bama]

Taylor said it well. In the drawing there is way to much wood below the stock and that is why I mentioned that the trigger set could be moved deeper into the stock, to reduce that distance. The location you have shown is optimal in my opinion and the triggers will need to be tuned to the lock to get the trigger pull weight that you want. Just getting the triggers to function and trip the sear is only part of a good trigger pull. You can smooth and polish the triggers and play with their location to get good function but the lock needs to be properly tuned to so that excessive trigger pull is not required to trip the sear. Only then will you get a smooth and light trigger. Remember all of the parts have to work together as one in order is get the best shootin iron.

[Eric Krewson]

Here is the picture;



The slightly rounded belly in front of the triggers still looks a little fat to me. The triggers are inletted about 1/16" lower than the visible wood.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Eric:  that clears things up a lot.  The way you have it right now is pretty decent.  You could inlet another 1/16" to reduce the amount of wood along the bottom of the lock area, but the rifle will be fine the way it is too.  I often inlet the trigger plate below the wood surface by about 1/16", at least on the front end, so that the trigger guard's inlet works out nicely.

[smylee grouch]

Looking good so far. I would take the extra 1/16 of wood off at the triggers, shape your lock panels to your pencil line and see how that looks. Doing that will change things a lot. Looks like you did a nice job inletting  the lock.

[Eric Krewson]

The wood around the lock is about 1/8" proud. I beat and bang everything up so I reduce the lock panel height last. 

[JCurtiss]

Hi Eric,

I set up my set trigger mechanism very similar to yours.  Everything seems to work perfectly except that the front trigger takes a "hefty" pull when not set. So my resolve is to simply "set" the trigger before firing.

Jason

P.S.: From what I can see your rifle is looking good!
 

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

There is very little you can do to make the front trigger pull, when unset, to be anything but very heavy.  I doubt it is meant to actually use for shooting the rifle, but simply a way to let the hammer down without actually firing it.  For that, it works nicely.  On a double set trigger, the front trigger is pinned far too low to be useful for firing the rifle.

[JCurtiss]

  On a double set trigger, the front trigger is pinned far too low to be useful for firing the rifle.

I agree!

[Mark Elliott]

I have gotten a 2 lb pull on the front trigger of a very slim southern rifle.   However,  I had to bend the sear bar so that it looked like half a pretzel.   I have had a problem with set triggers and the relatively large Chambers Late Ketland lock on slim southern guns.   I have gotten excellent function with the triggers on those rifles, but it took aggressive grinding to the trigger bars and very finicky bending of the sear bar.   That is why I have just started to install a limiting screw on the rear trigger spring.   I build my set triggers using Davis kits.   It eliminates the sear bar manipulations.     

When I can,  I stop inletting the triggers as soon as the front trigger operates the sear bar to uncock the lock.   I am usually satisfied with an operational, but heavy front trigger pull.