Author Topic: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles  (Read 4734 times)

Offline James Rogers

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Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« on: February 09, 2016, 06:06:56 PM »
I had mistakenly posted this in the gunbuilding section yesterday so I am hoping some of you gurus may be able to guide me to some information. In an old ALR thread, Gary Brumfield made mention of some VA rifles having the front sight inlaid into the barrel without a dovetail base. Does anyone have any further information on VA rifles with that trait? Information of particular rifles, locations, time periods, etc?

Thanks

Quote from Gary........

"Cut a slot in the barrel using the same small chisel you would use for slotting a trigger plate or barrel loop. Pick a chisel that is the same width as the thickness of the silver you plan to use. Mine is the same graver I use for cutting a bright cut border in engraving and is sharpened almost like a cold chisel but with the bottom side slightly curved.

Cut the groove in the barrel about a 1/16" deep --removing the steel except at the extreme ends where the chisel is allowed to swage up a curl. If you were to section the slot at this point it would actually look like a dovetail slot with the ends about 1/16th beyond the rolled up curl.

Cut out the silver with a slight concave arch to the bottom. Adjust the length until it just drops in the slot. When it bottoms out, tapping it lightly in the middle will bend (straighten) out the arch and extend the silver under the overhanging steel. Use a polished rectangular punch to set the steel down against the silver and also tap it along the sides of the sight so the slight bit of echo turned up by the graver is pressed down and helps trap the silver.

This method of installing front sight was very popular in some schools of riflemaking in VA.

Gary"

Offline Gary Tucker

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2016, 07:34:40 PM »
Marvin Kemper had a copy of a John Small rifle that he is building at the Lake Cumberland show that had that type of front sight on it.  Very neat looking.
Gary Tucker

Offline BOB HILL

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2016, 07:55:16 PM »
I have an old fowler that I think is Southern with a front site installed as Gary described and I used this method on a similar one that I built some years back. This is not hard to install. I did also use a touch of solder when I installed it. I am finishing up a VA. Rifle now that I am planning to use this on.........Bob
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Offline rich pierce

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2016, 08:43:53 PM »
I can envision this as common on octagon to round barrels. Interesting to know if examples on barre octagonal al the way to the muzzle.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Don Stith

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2016, 12:06:34 AM »
 As I posted earlier; That feature is frequently seen on Ohio rifles. Specifically the Vincents

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2016, 12:42:59 AM »
I talked with Wallace and he said it was used by a number of valley makers but recalled several John Sheetz (Staunton) rifles with that feature. It appears he did not adopt the feature until in Staunton . These are on octagonal rifle barrels.
Thanks for the posts!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 12:44:21 AM by James Rogers »

Offline homerifle

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2016, 02:29:43 AM »
I don't know what happened to yesterdays post.

I know of a couple of Grandstaff rifles from the Edinburg and Woodstock area in Shenandoah county from the valley of Virginia.
Both rifles have bone sights inlet as you described. The Grandstaff's worked from late 1790's to as late as the early 1850's.
Hope this will be of some help.

Offline Longknife

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2016, 05:15:51 PM »
This rifle by William Zollman, Rockbridge Co VA has such a sight. I was wondering how he did that!


http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15103.0
Ed Hamberg

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2016, 05:55:19 PM »
This rifle by William Zollman, Rockbridge Co VA has such a sight. I was wondering how he did that!


http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=15103.0

Those soft barrels can be indented with a narrow chisel and the scalloped out with another very narrow one and then the sight can be seated on a small spot of soft solder. I watched many years ago (1953)when Glen Napier in Kenova WV did it. Any with a milling machine and a woodruff key seater can do this in 2 minutes once the barrel is in the vise.
The top jaw screw on the double throated cock is set too far forward and IF the lock was to be used it would present problems with the leather and flint. I have made a number of Ketland locks with this type of cock and make sure the top jaw screw is as far back in the cock as possible and use a 10x24 or 10x32 screw.

Bob Roller

Offline Molly

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Re: Front sight inlet without base on VA rifles
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2016, 09:27:17 PM »
I have an original signed G SITES.  Sites was from Rockingham County, VA which everyone knows is in the Sheets area...Augusta County, Staunton, Harrisonburg...etc  "Experts" who have seen it peg it around 1810 to maybe 1815.  Some of Sites descendants still made guns in SW VA Allegheny County as recent as the 1970's so I am told.

The front site is set in the bbl with no dovetail....and it's VERY low to the bbl which is octagonal all the way.