Author Topic: roller locks  (Read 10091 times)

Offline snapper

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roller locks
« on: February 22, 2016, 04:08:16 AM »
Bob

have you or have you considered taking some pictures and writing up a tutorial on how you make your locks?

I bet there are plenty of people that would be interested in it.

Fleener
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 05:49:43 AM »
Bob

have you or have you considered taking some pictures and writing up a tutorial on how you make your locks?

I bet there are plenty of people that would be interested in it.

Fleener

No,not at this time. If I can't get my energy level back to somewhere near what it was a year ago there will be no more locks.I just sent a left and right set of parts back to the owner and might do the same with several more.

Bob Roller

Offline MontanaFrontier86

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 05:56:38 AM »
I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for a roller hawken percussion! ;D

Offline David Rase

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 06:11:25 AM »
For a person to build a lock it would take a lot more than a tutorial to end up with a high performance product.  You better have skill sets in machine tool operation, heat treating, filing, threading, as well as the equipment to perform all the operations.  You need to apprentice under a master lock maker and get the hands on training and acquire the skills vs. reading a treatise.
David     

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 06:17:35 AM »
For a person to build a lock it would take a lot more than a tutorial to end up with a high performance product.  You better have skill sets in machine tool operation, heat treating, filing, threading, as well as the equipment to perform all the operations.  You need to apprentice under a master lock maker and get the hands on training and acquire the skills vs. reading a treatise.
David     

David just nailed it.Thank you,sir.

Bob Roller

Offline KC

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 06:42:14 AM »
Fleener,
I have no doubt that both Dave and Bob are right that apprenticing under a master lock maker is the best way to go. However, since your phone book is probably like mine and contains no local master lock makers, there's a guy that posted a really interesting build of a Manton V-pan lock from a set of castings from The Rifle Shoppe. Go to ctmuzzleloaders.com and have a look. If nothing else, it's an enjoyable read.
K.C.
K.C. Clem
Bradenton, FL

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 06:44:32 AM »
I agree with David 100%. Maybe now would be a good time to find an apprentice to learn those skills from a real master. It would be a big and daunting job maybe but it would be a shame to not pass on the knowledge on that subject that Bob has.

Tony Clark

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 07:58:11 AM »
For a person to build a lock it would take a lot more than a tutorial to end up with a high performance product.  You better have skill sets in machine tool operation, heat treating, filing, threading, as well as the equipment to perform all the operations.  You need to apprentice under a master lock maker and get the hands on training and acquire the skills vs. reading a treatise.
David     

David just nailed it.Thank you,sir.

Bob Roller

What master lock maker did you apprentice under Bob?

Offline David Rase

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 08:51:47 AM »
It is one thing to assemble a Siler kit following Jim's instructions.  Lots of people are more than competent to take on that task.  I have seen many Siler kits that were put together by hobbyists and were "functional".   It is another thing to build a Siler like Walter Cain.  I have 2 Siler flintlocks built by Walter and they function like a Swiss watch.  I have never cocked a lock that was so smooth and crisp.  When you get a lock from Walter Cain or Bob Roller you are getting quality that only years of experience can give you.  That is why in my original post I specifically used the words "high performance product".
David

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 03:19:06 PM »
For a person to build a lock it would take a lot more than a tutorial to end up with a high performance product.  You better have skill sets in machine tool operation, heat treating, filing, threading, as well as the equipment to perform all the operations.  You need to apprentice under a master lock maker and get the hands on training and acquire the skills vs. reading a treatise.
David     

David just nailed it.Thank you,sir.

Bob Roller

What master lock maker did you apprentice under Bob?

I didn't apprentice under anyone. I got ideas from antique locks,some of poor quality
like commonly seen on American muzzleloaders and then there were superb ones like seen
on top of the line English and European guns.
Glen Napier and Bill Large encouraged my interest and critiqued the things I made and that
helped a lot and they also gave me small tools like files. I had the use of a lathe,the 12x36 Atlas that I
bought in 1958 and still own and use for some jobs. E.M.Farris and Wes Kindig also encouraged me and Wes talked me into making double set triggers.
   Finding suitable material to make locks and triggers was an early problem. Spring steel was not
easy to find and I made mainsprings from automobile hood and window regulator springs. I also
bought "Swedish Spring Steel" from Frank Mittermeier in NYC and later located American sources
for good quality spring steels. This was YEARS before anyone ever thought of the computer or any
thing other than a big ATT&T phone book.My mother was a supervisor and trainer for Bell Atlantic phone company and I had a free ride on long distance calls to anywhere in the USA that made locating material
easier to find. Bill Large suggested 1144 Stressproof for tumblers and it worked and worked well and I still use it
for tumblers. It machines like 12L14 and will harden like drill rod and seems to be very durable.
I suppose what I am saying is that with encouragement from interested people and such natural ability that I have,I have been able to do what I do in shop work and later in cars. My strong interest in the Duesenberg cars
is well known and I still,recently got inquiries about specific cars and work I did as a teen age mechanic.Later on I also helped a friend with his European Motors repair shop specializing in cars ranging from Rolls Royce to the little MG's and similar little fun to drive cars.Mercedes Benz was a specialty and Jaguar was as well.
   Getting back to locks and triggers,it takes TIME and a lot of it to get to the point where a marketable item can be made.If a job doesn't turn out right,try again. Nobody turns out perfect work and never will. I will hit 80 on EasterSunday and am fading. I have done 2 small jobs since 23 December due to the most severe bronchial infection of my life. I am weak and haven't the stamina I once had from this episode and it is a vexing thing to say the least.

Bob Roller

Offline snapper

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 03:42:32 PM »
David

I realize that it takes more than average skill to make a lock.  Hence the request for Bob to capture some of that information while he can.

I have no desire or the level of skill to make a lock.  I own several of Bob's locks and have been a happy customer of Bob's for several years and always enjoy visiting with him when he stops in at Friendship. 

Even though I never plan on building a lock, I would enjoy learning something.

Fleener



For a person to build a lock it would take a lot more than a tutorial to end up with a high performance product.  You better have skill sets in machine tool operation, heat treating, filing, threading, as well as the equipment to perform all the operations.  You need to apprentice under a master lock maker and get the hands on training and acquire the skills vs. reading a treatise.
David     
My taste are simple:  I am easily satisfied with the best.  Winston Churchill

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 03:52:44 PM »
Bob: Even if you never make another lock, I and I'm sure most on this forum, value your opinion and experience on these matters. Take good care of yourself and shake the bug thats got you buggered. Best wishes.   Smylee

Offline Don Stith

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2016, 04:02:36 PM »
Bob let me watch him make a mainspring from start to finish.  Very interesting activity. It did not prepare me to duplicate the effort though.. Wish I could have watched him machine a tumbler and sear.  Even I can make a bridal
 I have some of Walter Cains locks  and they are significant improvements over the standard Silers but are not in the same league with Bobs. I think Mr Cain still used the cast internals and mainspring. The main improvement came from better finish and  a reorientation of the tumbler, sear and spring. I believe Chambers has incorporated that orientation in their Deluxe version. Probably never get around to using the Cain locks,so they may appear in the for sale column here someday. Not quite as old as Bob but My wife is encouraging me to reduce the pile of gear I have accumulated. She even wants the inventory of antique rifles reduced. That would be like kicking friends out

Offline bama

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2016, 04:09:24 PM »
Hi Bob

I hope you get well soon. It's tuff. enough to do good work when you are feeling good much less when your feeling bad.

I have used a few of your triggers but never had a chance to use one of your locks but I have always good things about them. The triggers were great.

Get well soon
Jim Parker

"An Honest Man is worth his weight in Gold"

Offline FDR

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2016, 05:01:18 PM »
All us old guys have a decision to make. We can take our knowledge to the grave or we can share with the next generation.  The decision is ours and ours alone. Just think where the world would be if all knowledge had died with the owner.

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2016, 05:19:01 PM »
 Words can't express the shear joy I felt the first time I responded to something on this forum and the great Bob Roller, not only responded, but agreed with me. Thanks Bob. Your work speaks for itself.

    Hungry Horse

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2016, 05:36:47 PM »
Bob I wish you well. Hope you get feeling better soon.

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2016, 05:50:35 PM »
Words can't express the shear joy I felt the first time I responded to something on this forum and the great Bob Roller, not only responded, but agreed with me. Thanks Bob. Your work speaks for itself.

    Hungry Horse

Hungry Horse,
"great"??! Since when and WHAT was the subject??

Bob Rollert

Offline Bob Roller

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2016, 06:15:16 PM »
Words can't express the shear joy I felt the first time I responded to something on this forum and the great Bob Roller, not only responded, but agreed with me. Thanks Bob. Your work speaks for itself.

    Hungry Horse

Hungry Horse,
"great"??! Since when and WHAT was the subject??

Bob Roller

 I want to thank all of you that posted in reply to my informing all who are on the forum
that I am not firing on all 12 cylinders. I think I am running on six and dragging the other
six,sort of like a 1937 Cadillac I once owned.
I have a flintlock to repair that I made on an L&R Ashmore lock external parts.
The lock has fallen into the hands of someone who filed the tumbler and sear into
being completely useless and lost the sear spring. The bridle is a mess but the
mainspring and the link to the tumbler are OK....maybe. I hope to at least start the
remake today.Thanks again for all the well wishes and compliments.

Bob Roller

Offline bones92

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2016, 06:09:03 PM »
Bob, quit yer belly-aching and get back to work. ;)


But seriously... I appreciate the advice you offer, and I hope you're feeling better again soon.
If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Offline al56

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2016, 07:36:27 PM »
I to have enjoyed and learned much from the gentlemen on this forum.  I also understand what Bob and others are saying.  You could have a whole video and still not know all the in's and outs' of lock building.  That being said short tutorials on different aspects such as machining a tumbler, lock geometry, and sear machining  would at  least get people started on the right road.  Bob, hope you get better soon.
Al

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2016, 08:24:06 PM »
Acer Sack-o-rum presented a bit of a step by step process that he did when he put together a lock some years ago. It was an inspirational and informative treatise.
D. Taylor Sapergia
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Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

mattdog

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2016, 08:36:53 PM »
"We can take our knowledge to the grave or we can share with the next generation."

Sounds good but try to find someone to cary the torch.  The younger generation seems too busy to fool around with us.  And think about this:  They don't offer "shop" or "Industrial Arts" classes like they did when I was in school so the young pups come to you with no requisite skills.  You would be shocked at how many young men I've come aross who can't even read a tape measure or ruler.  It's very sad.

Offline BOB HILL

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2016, 08:58:07 PM »
Mr. Roller, glad to here that you are feeling better. We all treasure the information you have shared with us through these posts over the years. Thanks.           
Bob
South Carolina Lowcountry

Offline Chris Treichel

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Re: roller locks
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2016, 10:52:28 PM »
Yes sir, I truly appreaciate the advice you gave me and even though I still have not started taking machining classes it is soon in comming and something I will do. I have put the half finished breach on my tool box so it reminds me what needs doing.

As Newton said, we stand on the shoulders of giants and I am always amazed at the amount of knowledge on this forum.