Author Topic: Brass patchbox questions  (Read 6331 times)

Offline Nordnecker

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Brass patchbox questions
« on: February 23, 2016, 03:32:08 PM »
Do you guys remove the patchbox before applying AF to the stock? Do you leave it on when you whisker? I guess you put it back before sealing and varnishing. Do you like the look of flush filed screw heads or slightly domed screw heads?
How do you keep the finish off of the brass? How do you remove it if you do get it on the brass? Any advice from those in the know is welcomed.
Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 03:32:42 PM by Nordnecker »
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Offline David Rase

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2016, 06:13:58 PM »
I leave the patchbox in while applying AF as well as any stains, sealers or finishing oils.  Do to the nature of wood swelling and shrinking, it requires too much cleanup and refitting of the box to get it "reinlet".  I use 0000 steel wool to clean up the box.
David

oldarcher

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2016, 09:09:29 PM »
What he said.

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2016, 09:57:31 PM »
I don't suppose any of you would care to tell one not familiar with current shop practice, just what IS AF?

Is it an acid???

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 10:22:21 PM »
Quote
just what IS AF?
Aqua Fortis Nitric Acid with iron desolved in it.
Dennis
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 12:24:43 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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Offline JCKelly

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 04:29:34 AM »
Thanks, Dennis

Hopefully AF has been neutralized, I am personally unfamiliar with the commercial product.
If it has enough acid remaining in it that acid could leach zinc from the brass. So, where the brass meets the wood the brass would acquire a reddish color. Suppose it takes months for this to happen.

Something I saw in the '70's with a rifle from a top-notch maker in the east. Would have been to impolite, even for me, to say anything. I imagine at that time he would have stained with just plain nitric acid, maybe followed by some heat.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 05:14:10 AM »
Plain nitric acid doesn't stain.

When finished coloring with aqua fortis (yes, I know, with iron added) it is neutralized.  Traditionally done with a solution of wood ashes (lye).  Most people today neutralize with baking soda (wimps  :D ), but it doesn't yield the same color that is generally seen on 18th century arms.  Then the whole stock is washed off to remove the lye, allowed to dry, then it is finished.   ;)
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 05:33:13 AM »
Chris,
This sugar maple stock was done with plain nitric and water about 22 years ago

Offline Stophel

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2016, 07:53:51 AM »
Really?  It has never done anything for me, I've tried.
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline JCKelly

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2016, 04:13:55 AM »
Heat it.

Probably Wife's hair dryer will do something, a shop heat gun definitely.

Or, just wait a few years.

The nitric acid will burn/oxidize/darken the wood.

Offline Stophel

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2016, 01:56:05 AM »
I've put nitric acid on straight, no iron (yes, I know to heat it).  Nothing.  That's why I've braved the billowing fumes of hot red death, dropping bits of iron into the acid all these years.... which reminds me, I have to make up some more, I think I'm out.  :-\
When a reenactor says "They didn't write everything down"   what that really means is: "I'm too lazy to look for documentation."

Offline Nordnecker

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2016, 03:53:05 PM »
This is my first brass patchbox. I built it last weekend and got it inletted over the week. I can't wait to press the release button and have it fly open. Trouble is, my spring, release mechanism is too short to be springy. It looked good on paper but needs to be different.
On another thread, someone questioned the logic of an over the comb tang. I've been questioning the logic of the fancy (or not so fancy) patchbox covers. Why would anyone go through so much effort for so little space? And like the others said, it's just showing off. It's like chrome wheels on your car, Man. It's vanity on the part of the maker or the owner. It's fun, though, in a way. It is impressive to press a little button and have the door "magically" open. Maybe that will happen for me in the next day or two.
"I can no longer stand back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids."- Gen Jack T. Ripper

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2016, 05:00:50 PM »
Patchbox releases very seldom work perfectly the first time.
They all take a bit of fiddling around with.  :P

Offline Hungry Horse

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2016, 05:17:25 PM »
 I never leave the patch box in when applying aqua fortis for the very reason Mr. Kelly refers to. I've seen way too many guns with a halo around the edges of the brass fittings from this practice.

  Hungry Horse

Whaleman

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2016, 10:38:25 PM »
While I am not very experienced what has worked for me is to take the patchbox out for staining and reinstall before finishing. I like the Chambers oil finish and it can be cleaned off carefully with alcohol and a Q-tip. The finish makes my inletting look better. Dan

Offline Nordnecker

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2016, 04:44:18 AM »
I managed to get my patchbox working by about 2:20 this afternoon. It was somewhat anti-climatic. As soon as this happened I realized how much work there was to do on the rest of the stock. But, nevertheless, I probably opened it about 60 times over the rest of the day.
One problem I'm having is- this is a 4 piece side opener- the side pieces only have 2 screws, the front ends are beveled to tuck under ther finial. The finial doesn't move because it's tight from all directions. The side pieces only have resistance where they are inlet to the wood so they want to slide toward the door a little. The little ends at the finial sort of gap open because there is nothing to stop them from doing so. I got carried away and filed a bevel all the way across the back of the finial. I should have only filed it where the sides met the finial and reversed it where the door lands…. But it works great.
Another question is- The catch. The catch is mild steel with a round tenon bradded over on the top side of the door. It was countersunk and left a nice round steel infill in the (1/16) brass door. Should this be soldered to keep it from rotating? Maybe I should have filed a square tenon for a round countersink. That would have worked if I had a square tapered needle file…..I probably do…. There's no end to this.
"I can no longer stand back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids."- Gen Jack T. Ripper

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2016, 05:20:05 AM »
Quote
Should this be soldered to keep it from rotating?
Yes, I used soft solder on the two I made. It worked fine.
Dennis
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 05:22:35 AM by Dennis Glazener »
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thimble rig

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2016, 07:08:35 AM »
Yeah I put a square shank on the top of my latch post then peened it over on the lid.have also solder them to.On the side plates if I'm understanding this right .Because there loose you could use  a couple of small brass brads to nail them in place .Just anneal the heads of the nails and make a little jig with a hole drilled in it the size of the nail shank then counter sink it  then put the nail in it and gentley hammer it flat then drill youre hole in the side plate and counter sink it then put the nail in file it flush.

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Brass patchbox questions
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2016, 04:35:55 AM »
You can use a brass wood screw ( not brass plated ). Drill your pilot hole, then open the sideplate up for the shank,then a small countersink. Run the screw down and file off the head, like a pin only its screwed
in.