finishing a buttplate

[mountainman]

Wouldn't mind hearing from you gentlemans, that had quite a few years experience of gun building, when you go to the final shaping or finishing a buttplate, for example do you file, sand, scrape,or anneal it, or treat it with some gob?  just thoughts'
i think actually what i'm referring to is those nicely smoothly polished, and clear crisp lines, that i see on some of your guns... thought it might interesting to hear your comments..

[L. Akers]

With rough sand castings I start with bastard cut files of different sizes and shapes to get rid of the rough surfaces.  I use finer cut files to smooth the surfaces and finish with fine cut files.  Then I use aluminum-oxide abrasive papers in grits from 240 to 600 to polish the surfaces with each finer grit removing the scratches left by the previous grit.  I finish with Tripoli polish on a muslin wheel for a bright shine.

I don't anneal unless I need to bend something into shape or alignment.

[Rich]

I have a 3m wheel on a grinder followed by Files followed by stones to polish it out. I have a set of stones from Gesswein that range from 100 to 1200 grit. They are fairly hard stones used with oil. Finally, I have leather glued to a piece of wood the shape of a file. I use Flexgold polishing compound on it to finish the job. Prior to the stones, I used sandpaper, always backed with wood or a file. The stones do a better job.

[davec2]

Saw off any gates.  File surfaces with coarse and then fine files.  (So far I have about 15 minutes invested in the plate.) Inlet, fit to stock and file the profile of the stock and edge of butt plate together.  Scrape with utility knife blade (but not with the edge - stone the two 45 degree edges to a sharp 90).  Scraping a large butt plate takes another 15 minutes.

Duplicated from another post of mine:

To take a break from the tedium of carving, I scraped the butt plate with the angled edge of a box cutter blade.  It takes off brass more rapidly and more smoothly than a file and leaves a finish that does not take too much more work with fine abrasive paper.





Finish up with these:



http://www.amazon.com/Lumberton-fine-Sanding-Sticks-Finishing/dp/B0039ZCQAK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1456807819&sr=8-1&keywords=sanding+sticks

You can use oil or water (or spit) to lubricate and the belts last much longer.  30 to 45 minutes of increasingly finer sanding sticks each at 45 degrees to the previous pass.  Finish up on muslin wheel with Tripoli.  Not including inletting into the stock, 1 to 1.5 hours from rough casting to finished plate.

[mountainman]

Thanks guys for your comments, it was the added information i needed. Especially on the scraping, and also those sanding sticks, and polishing.. However more questions. 1. On what do you use the muslin wheel? A dremel, or a drill, or a grinder? What Size??
Never heard of tripoli, is there a certain color, you would for that project? which i understand is a compound, that you would use with the wheel to polish..

[L. Akers]

I use a home-made buffer to do final polishing.  It is a bearing-mounted arbor powered by a v-belt driven by a 1/4 horse electric motor.  My buffing wheels are about 1/2 " thick and 9" in diameter but they are available in many thicknesses and diameters.  More than one can be mounted on the arbor at a time for wider applications.  Use a different wheel for each type material.

Tripoli polish is dark grey in color and I buy it in 3.5 oz. sticks.  The local Ace Hardware carries it.

[mountainman]

Thanks all for your help, and information, greatly appreciate it.

[FDR]

You can also use a bench grinder as a buffer by replacing the stone wheel with a cloth wheel. As was mentioned above you need a different wheel for each compound. I turned a large bench grinder (10 inch 1750 rpm) into a dedicated buffer by replacing both stone wheels.  Works great!

Fred

[kutter]

File to shape and define the lines. Keep going with finer cut files to remove the marks from the previous coarse cut files.
Then abrasive cloth backed up with a file on the flats to keep them flat. You can 'shoe-shine' polish some of the  convex curved surfaces quickly and evenly. Both will show any low or uneven spots as well as scars left from previous coarse cut files that you missed. This is all standard procedure for polishing any part.

I use garnet sandpaper a lot on brass,,the stuff that's really meant for wood sanding. It cuts well and leaves a soft appearance to the surface. I start w/220.
Anyway, when I get down to about a 400, I finish it off with scotchbrite pads. That blends everything nicely. You don't have to polish in any particular direction if you don't want to. It'll leave a handled and burnished look that way.
No glitzy shine. Don't want or need one.

No buffing wheels or buffing compound even on a cloth. That has no place here IMO.

(I use a belt sander a lot for polishing parts and will use it on M/L parts as well. Very fast and efficient but you can get in trouble with one quickly if you don't have some experience.
Keep belts separate especially for use on brass parts.)

[mountainman]

Thanks again everyone, Davec2 i went ahead ordered those sanding sticks, just got them in the mail, now i'm about ready 2 try them out. thanks

[mountainman]

Also tried your scraping method, it worked great, again thanks for all your generosity..

[rtc]

One more step, referring to your initial comment about smooth, crisp lines meeting the wood is to do any engraving and fine decorative filing AFTER the metal butt plate and wood are fully inlet. This is because the metal and wood surface are shaped in the final steps TOGETHER by the same file & abrasive action, in my experience. This continues, especially in the case of a butt plate tang typical of smooth bore & some rifled guns, with the use of abrasives such as emery & sand paper right down to a near polish. Then take off the butt plate, give a careful final polish being careful not to round the edges where the wood meets it, engrave & finish filing any raised moldings, and reinstall. Doing the finish work BEFORE the inletting & mating of the metal and wood surface is asking for trouble should the two surfaces not match initially and is a bitter experience.
     Richard

[Stophel]

Just realize that 200+ years ago, the average gun (and even many of the above-average guns) did not have their metal polished to a glass-smooth mirrored sheen.  So far, EVERY old gun I have been able to see and handle (not that I have seen bunches and bunches, but I have seen several) has shown file marks ALL OVER the metalwork.     Even if the surfaces were smooth, they were not flawless by any means.

[WadePatton]

Dang, this ain't for steel. 

Great point Stophel, but it's the buyers who must be convinced of this. 

I like to leave very fine marks here and there just to remind me (and all who closely examine my work) that it was done by hand, and not on an assembly line. PLUS as you note, it's how we find many of the genuine articles.

[James Rogers]

Great point Stophel, but it's the buyers who must be convinced of this.  

I think peer pressure has as much or more to do with it than than being customer driven.

I have found myself on occasion saying things like "yeah, I really need to finish the inside of that trigger bow like the outside or someone will assume I just wanted to cut a corner".   I am not really considering a customer view at that point as much as I am considering the standard or what I perceive as the accepted standard of my peers and those who I look up to.

There is a small window between just the right type and amount of tool marks and shoddy looking IMO especially when mixing modern techniques with old. The customer comes at it from comparison to buffing wheel factory cookie pieces or comparing to other contemporary work they are familiar with. Many peers come at it from a modern standard of perfection based on modern techniques, comparing to other modern contemporary work as opposed to originals and not fully trying 5o comprehend the 18th century maker mindset. Of course we are all looking thru a very dirty window trying to see the past.