Fun range trip with new rifle....

[scott63]

I had been looking for a flintlock for a while, I wanted something that looked decent to me and would hopefully be accurate but not too nice as I intend to use it for target shooting and hopefully hunting. I have seen a lot of rifles here that are so nice I would be terrified to actually use them. I have owned a percussion .50 cal production gun as a teenager, but had only fired it a couple hundred times. It was plenty accurate and fun, a guy owned a local shop back then and he really took the time to teach me how to load and shoot it safely.

I found a .50 cal rifle that I liked the looks of, that was priced less than a kit so I got it. The inside of the barrel looked new, although the striking face of the frizzen shows wear.

I started with 65 grains of 3f and moved up to 70 grains because this was the load used in my other rifle. It didn't seem to matter at 25 or 50 yards the results were the same with both weights. Ball was .490 Speer and not sure of patch thickness, I think it is .011 but the pkg isn't marked, spit lube.

I fired 26 shots roughly half at 25 and half at 50 yards, had two FTS, and one FITP. The FITP was due to plugged vent and happened on shot 14, the two FTS was because the flint had shifted position and wasnt striking the frizzen face squarely and happened towards the end of the shoot.

The first half of the shooting at 25 yards was producing ragged hole and one hole groups with either charge weight, just seems to depend on the shooter(me) ability to hold still and not flinch. The rifle seems to fire pretty fast, but a couple times there was a very slight delay that usually caused a group to open up.

Now lets talk about the 50 yard mark! #@!! $#@* do I suck!  I would hesitate to call my targets groups, and would be inclined to call them "patterns". I made sure to really concentrate and shoot carefully, but still the shots were all over and the groups were about 4 inches. Good thing it was still fun

I have since read here that I may need to switch to 2F, and that one new shooter went with a .530 ball so i may need to make an order, but I still have about 60 .490 lead balls to use up.

A couple questions:
     Does anyone have a picture of a properly primed frizzen pan?
     Any suggestions on ball diameter/ patch thickness?
     Should I consider 80 grains of 3F and 90 grains of 2F?
Thank you,
Scott

[Dewey]

First thing I would do is shoot from a rest to see if the 50 yd results are you or the rifle.
Second I would try a thicker patch.

Good luck !!!

[bob in the woods]

If your rifle is a 50 cal, you won't need .530 balls.   Those are for a .54 cal
Production flintlock rifles have different/various types of vents/breach arrangements , so you may need to pick the vent more often to make sure it's open. I usually have the pan 1/2 filled, and make sure you wipe out the pan and the underside of the pan cover if you need to. Use the balls you have, but with a thicker patch. Depending on your barrel , you may get better results with a .495 ball.  Shoot from a rest, and see what you get.

[thimble rig]

You have to experiment with different things.Trying a thicker patch different size balls different patch lube.But try 1 thing at a time,shooting from a rest keep some records so you know what you have already tried.It means a lot of range time wich is a good thing.And the most important  thing have fun.

[oldtravler61]

Hi Scott. Just a suggestion like the other's. Always shoot from a good solid rest.  You can offhand at 25 yards pretty good. But once you start adding distance. The slightest twitch, trigger pull twist of the wrist. Can start opening the group. We all hate to admit it's us lol Have a good day. Oldtravler

[scott63]

If your rifle is a 50 cal, you won't need .530 balls.   Those are for a .54 cal
Production flintlock rifles have different/various types of vents/breach arrangements , so you may need to pick the vent more often to make sure it's open. I usually have the pan 1/2 filled, and make sure you wipe out the pan and the underside of the pan cover if you need to. Use the balls you have, but with a thicker patch. Depending on your barrel , you may get better results with a .495 ball.  Shoot from a rest, and see what you get.

Bob, I thought a .530 ball would be way to big and have to be hammered down the barrel of a .50 cal rifle but on the second page of this post is what nature boy says he is using in a .50 cal. I'll try thicker patch material first and see what that does from a rest. http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=38995.25

Should I be chronographing velocity? I'm still not sure what would be an appropriate load for hunting, other than what shoots good in my rifle.
Thanks
Scott

[retired fella]

the key word here is fun...and it will be so long as you keep it that way.  First off, before buying stuff, try a thicker patch.  I shoot a .495 with a .018 patch (very tight) with 50 gr of 3F.  I suspect with your .490 anything .018-.022 will get you close.  Every rifle is different and you have to play with the variables to work up your load.  As far a slight delay could be several things but I suspect it might be that your flint might have dulled a touch.  Rather than knapping with a hammer or rock or any other such tool try (while unloaded) close the frizzen against the flint and with pressure rake the flint up the frizzen.  This will give you a sharp edge again without taking excessive use out of the flint.  Also as a matter of loading practice always pick the touch hold and run a moist finger along the face of the frizzen to remove burnt powder.      HAVE FUN.

[scott63]

Thanks for the info, I forgot to ask about wiping the face of the frizzen and flint, but did find that it helped spark better after 8-10 shots. I can see where 50 gr of 3F would be enjoyable for target practice, but I'm looking to work up a load for hunting too. I do have a chronograph, but I have no idea what kind of velocity I should be looking for with a round ball.
Thanks
Scott

[Daryl]

The most enjoyable load for target shooting, is the most accurate load for your rifle when not having to wipe the bore.  This requires using a ball and patch combination that cleans the bore as you load the next shot, thus there is no fouling buildup inside the bore.

If you are getting "good" accuracy, yet the bore is still fouling after 8 to 12 shots, instead of wiping it out, try reducing the charge to 1/3rd, making the patch VERY wet, and loading that with normal ball, then shooting it. This should effectively clean your bore, allowing another 8 to 12 shots.

I do this in my 14 bore rifle when shooting paper ctg. loads with hunting charges (165gr. in that rifle).  The, what I call a squib load for that rifle, 82gr. with a spit-WET patch allows me another accurate 10 shots with paper ctgs. before needing another spit patched ball and 82gr. to clean the bore yet again, allowing another 10 paper ctgs. to be fired, with equal accuracy to the patched ball. When it's -50 and you are hunting, paper ctgs. are the way to go - with a large bore rifle(over .54), that is. It probably won't work in a .50 or smaller due to the high pressure generated with hunting loads.

[scott63]

Thanks for the input Daryl,
Scott

[David R. Pennington]

I like to shoot 3 shot groups, record the particulars (ball diameter, charge, powder, patch), swab bore, change something and shoot three more shots and keep going till I get the tightest possible groups. My .50 likes 75 grains 3F. On a good day I can get 3 inch group at 100yrds, if I up the charge 5 grains the group opens to 6 inches. 2F seems to foul up a little quicker. I either spit patch or bear oil patches and hardly ever swab between shots in a match. Keep at it till you find what your rifle likes best, they are all different. This is part of the fun for me. I haven't had a cartridge rifle out for years.

[RichG]

fill the pan full. more prime more flash more heat more likely to go off.
.490 and a .020 patch to start. change one component at a time to avoid confusion.
3f should be all you need in a 50. having loads worked up for both 2f and 3f could come in useful if powder is hard to come by.
keep notes! saves time and confusion.
if you have a chronograph use it; lets you know what's going on inside the barrel.
I usually try for 1800fps range for a hunting load and 1500fps for plinking target work.

[SCLoyalist]

I get pretty good results with priming covering the bottom of the pan between barrel and outer edge of pan, and below the vent hole.



(BTW for this pic, I primed with sugar so it would show up better)

You may find an article or two on Larry Pletcher's blackpowdermag.com site on priming and effect on ignition time.    Conventional wisdom says don't overprime, but that may be more of an 'old wives tale' than grounded in fact.   

[Daryl]

I think the only way to OVER prime, is if the priming is so high as to keep the frizzen (hammer) from closing, but even when doing that, I've always had almost instant ignition. I would say that might be over priming.

I always fill the pan.  Rich's fastes ignition tests were when the vent hole is actually covered wirth priming powder and the finest powder is used, not 3F or 2F.  If we can trust his testing, and I am certain we can, what is over priming? Is there actually such a thing as over priming - no matter where the vent is actually located.

If you hunt with a flint lock - I think you must fill the pan to guarantee ignition - otherwise if just a sprinkle (covering the bottom only) of priming is used, it may be possible the gun will not fire as when carrying, the 'prime' may have come to rest where the sparks just happen not to fall. If theer are ANY sparks, falling anywhere in the pan, I want ignition.

[scott63]

Thanks guys for all the info and the pic! Can't wait for the next chance to go to the range, I have a couple different patch thicknesses to work with.
Scott

[Pete G.]

Don't overthink this. Find a patch that fits the bore snugly with the ball you are using and load over a moderate powder charge. Most 50 cal handle 70-75 gr nicely. You can experiment with lubes, but a spit patch seems to work well with most rifles. If your 25 yd groups are good but the 50 yd groups aren't what you would like, then put in some more trigger time, concentrating on sight picture and that all important follow through. Save the chrono and the group measuring for the center fire stuff.

Most important thing at this stage is to burn plenty of powder and have fun.

[scott63]

Thanks Pete, I'll definitely be burning some powder in the next week or so! Right now we've had rain and 30-50 mph winds for the last several days, and rain continuing for possibly the whole week. As soon as it lets up I'm going to be back at it. I like the idea of the spit wet patches, easier than dealing with lubed patches and I wouldn't want to put lubed patched in my mouth, thats for sure.