Philip Creamer Info

[MontanaFrontier86]

I am looking for information in the early Illinois gunsmith Philip Creamer. I have the Gunsmith Of Illinois Volumes 1 & 2and read the information about him there. I would like more info on the rifles he built. There is one in the Missouri history museum that I would be interested in trying to copy. How would I go about them letting me see it and take measurements and pictures? Here is the link to the rifle http://collections.mohistory.org/resource/203045.html Anybody have any pictures of the rifles he built please post them along with any specs.

[Avlrc]

There is a lot of info on him & pictures of his rifles & I think one or  two pistols in
 " Maryland Longrifles" by Daniel Hartzler & James Whisker.  Also on page 89 in "Gunsmiths of Maryland" by Hartzler & Whisker  there is a rifle picture.   A picture of one of his patchboxes in " Kentucky Rifle Patchboxes" volume II Chandler & Whisker"

http://www.amazon.com/Gunsmiths-Maryland-Daniel-Whisker-Hartzler/dp/B002UKSYF6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1457218453&sr=8-1&keywords=Gunsmiths+of+Maryland+by+Hartzler+%26+Whisker

http://www.militaryhistorybookshop.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=112576

[Avlrc]

Seems there is some pictures in Jim Gordons book " Great Gunmakers of The Early West" . But might be wrong about that. 

[Tanselman]

Regarding  your question about how to get pictures and dimensions...a lot of major museums have their own photographer on staff, and at times they request you use their photographer...at a pre-established fee per picture taken. You need to contact the museum and ask for the curator of collections. Once in contact with him/her, you can quickly find out what their guidelines are for photography, if there is a fee attached, and what conditions may be imposed (if any) to photograph their items. Often you must sign an agreement with them stating it is for a one-time use only...specifying that use...and committing to provide them a copy of whatever your final use is. You may get lucky and be dealing with a museum that will allow you to photograph the gun yourself, but they will probably still ask you to sign a "usage agreement" restricting what you can do with the resulting photographs.

Thanks for posting the web address of the Creamer rifle in the Missouri History Museum. I've seen most of his work, but never this fine rifle, so it was enjoyable to view. I have not seen an iron patchbox like this one, but the rifle is high quality work and the iron rear pipe is similar to those used on his iron mounted pistols....as is the wrist checkering. It would be interesting to see the back side (side plate, cheekpiece, cheek inlay, etc.) and the barrel signature on this fine rifle. It must be a later work due to the high curvature in the butt plate, but a great rifle that has survived in fine condition.  Shelby Gallien    

[louieparker]

This rifle was made a flintlock and converted to percussion. The cheek piece is very nicely shaped beaver tail. The cheek inlay is an oval. The barrel is signed on the left rear diagonal flat in what I believe to be a gold oval. Only with the initials PC.  There is also one gold band at the breech..  LP

[L. Akers]

There was an article about Creamer and a pistol he made for Pres. Jackson in the June 2013 issue of Muzzle Blasts.  As I recall there was quite a bit of biographical data in the article.

[Frank Graves]

And there is another (first of two parts) article on Creamer and the Andrew Jackson dueling pistol that has now been reunited with it's mate in the current (February, 2016) issue of the online Arms Heritage Magazine.  It is a very interesting article and has more biographical information presented there on Creamer, his shops in Missouri and Illinois and Jim Bridger's early apprenticeship with him. 

[Longknife]

I had the opportunity to get a real close look at this rifle a few years ago during a tour of the MHS archives. The number of firearms in this collection is absolutely astounding. I didn't have time to take any measurements but I can tell you what I know. First, my initial reaction to seeing this rifle was, "No one would build a Longrifle like that!".  It has many characteristics of an ENGLISH FOWLING PIECE!!!
  It has a long, maybe a 42 to 44 inch swamped barrel, didn't check caliber. Barrel is held in by three wedges with oval steel wedge plates, finely engraved.  The plates closest to the breech had rounded "wings" top and bottom. It is NOT a hooked breech rifle and the tapered engraved tang has a "thumbnail' finale. The barrel does have a gold band at the breech and a round gold plate on the left flat engraved with "PC".  The rear sight was a typical flat top  sight and the front sight was the type where the blade is inlet into a groove cut in the barrel flat.
 The lock is the of the typical English waterproof variety marked "ROGERS & BROTHERS WARRENTED". Flint, converted to percussion. The lock is held to the stock with two lock bolts ( no side plate) with simple round washers inlet into the stock, much like an English Fowling piece.
  The nose cap was nothing special, just plain iron with a shallow RR groove and no engraving.
  The ram rod pipes are round with a raised band near each end. The entry pipe has a double thumbnail and the finale is tapered to a point, again like an English Fowling piece.
  The toe plate is rather long with a thumbnail finale and the patch box release is located on it.
  The butt plate is typical of the period with a rounded top and a raised band, like the RR pipes.
  The patch box is very elegant with well executed side plates, and a nice pineapple finale, all engraved.
  The cheek piece is of the rounded English type, rounded  and well defined. It has light "step" where it meets the stock and is adorned with an oval silver plate engraved with an eagle clutching arrows and an olive branch. It is secured by one screw in the center.
  The trigger guard, English scroll type and the rear extension has a thumbnail finale and the front extension is a finely engraved pineapple design,,,, again, think ENGLISH...
  The triggers are of the "set" type with a straight front post and deeply curved rear trigger.
  The stock, maple with an English type checkered wrist, with a silver engraved oval on top. I believe the initials were WC.
  The only carving on the rifle is the step around the cheek piece, a step from butt plate to checkered wrist and a step with an incised line running the length of the fore end. This step ends in the typical curvy line at the rear most wedge plate.
 Much of the hardware was engraved in fine English type engraving and there was a lot of the Wiggle type border engraving too.....