Set Trigger Location Mistake?

[toddsndrsn]

Well I thought I read everything I could and thought  I understood what I read, but I must not have.  Correct any misunderstandings I may have.

The rear trigger bar is the one that hits the sear?  The preferred location on the trigger bar contact with the sear is near the tip of the trigger bar?  If that's correct then I think I need to move my trigger back about 3/16"?  Then make a insert to fill in the gap left or is it possible to cover that up with the trigger guard.  Or will it work just the way it is?  This is my first so I expect to make mistakes.  

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Show us a picture of the side view without the lock in place. Make sure the triggers are not 'set'.

[Ky-Flinter]

Hi Todd,

Your front trigger can trip the lock from an unset position and the rear trigger blade trips the lock from a set position.  If you want both triggers to function correctly, the preferred location for the trigger blade to contact the sear is NOT near the tip of either trigger blade.

I agree with Taylor, it will help to see a picture from the side, with the triggers installed, and the lock out, so we can see into the hole for the sear bar.  Ideally, the 2 trigger blades will form a shallow "V" that can be seen in the sear bar hole.

In your second picture, is the pointer indicating the spot where the rear trigger blade contacts the sear now?  The contact spot you want is about an 1/8" or maybe 3/16" to the rear of the pointer.  Move the trigger assembly forward in the stock to make that adjustment.

-Ron

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

When the front and rear triggers are raised to form that "V" where both contact the sear arm at the same time, it is usually right about where the adjustment screw is located in the plate.  So your installation looks right to me or darn close to it.  If the triggers are not tripping the sear, you have another issue?

[flinchrocket]

Even if the triggers are in the perfect location it is so hard to set the gun off with the front trigger that
it's not worth the trouble to move an eighth of an inch. IMO

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

That front trigger is best used only to lower the cock - not a viable trigger for shooting.

[toddsndrsn]

Ron, the pencil tip is the where it appears to the untrained eye where the trigger bar is hitting the sear.  I put some inletting black on the trigger bar and that's the area was marked on the trigger bar.  You can hear the trigger hit the sear, but that's all.

[Dave B]

I take it that the front trigger will not fire the lock? It looks like there is enough front trigger bar to contact the sear. The question becomes is the lock functioning perfectly with out the triggers in place and you trip the sear with a screw driver blade. If it wont trip you may have the sear hitting wood at the tip of the sear lever deep in the hole. I may be seeing this wrong but the tail of the lock looks to be deeper into the wood than the front portion of the lock. I have had trouble with this once if I over tightened the lock bolt the sear would drag in its inlet. A good smoking of the lock innards ultimately reviled the points of contact and once relieved worked perfectly. Can you pull the front trigger fully back while its fully held in the inlet? Some times the range of the trigger bar is restricted by wood on the arch that the tip of the bar swings through. You may have enough to engage the trigger but not enough to pull it to the point of release. I hope that makes sense.  It is still difficult to see whats happening due to your photos not being square on shots. They are all at an angle which makes it impossible to see the true position of the components relative to the sears placement. Here is a shot of one of my rifles that has a dragging sear lever tip, you can see the contact point in the sear lever inlet hole.

[Ky-Flinter]

Todd,

Dave B makes a good point.  Does the lock fire correctly without the triggers in place?  Once you know the lock is functioning correctly in the stock, you can concentrate on the triggers.

Before you move your triggers, you might try increasing the preload on the rear trigger spring by tightening the screw a little.  It could be the rear trigger blade is hitting the sear, but not hard enough to trip the lock.  If that fixes your problem, you may decide that is good enough.  I noticed your trigger plate already has the hole for the tang bolt, so moving the triggers may cause you some trouble in fitting your tang bolt.

I still think your trigger assembly is too far back.  In their current location the pull on the front trigger will be extremely hard.  If the assembly is moved forward, the front trigger will have better leverage for use unset and the rear blade will contact the sear sooner in its arc.  The front trigger on my rifle pictured below works fine unset.  It's a little heavy but I've used it to kill deer when I didn't have time to remove my glove so I could safely use the set trigger.

Also note in the picture below, the lash adjustment screw is directly below the sear bar location.

[toddsndrsn]

I can trip the sear with front trigger.  I can also trip it with a dow rod.  It does take a fair amount of pressure however that's relative to my perceptions.  The only interference is at the very top of the mortise past the trip point.  I believe the trigger is a Davis #1008 Golden Age Set Trigger.  What are the odds that there is something wrong with the main trigger spring?  I played with the load screw, but I did not notice an appreciable difference. I can pretty well stop the trigger bar by holding a finger over top and barely notice the little flick from the trigger bar.  I took my Pedersoli apart and there is a significant difference in the trigger spring, not the same trigger, but similar in design.

[Ky-Flinter]

There could be something amiss with the triggers.  As you tighten the load spring, setting the rear trigger should take more effort.  And if the set trigger were working correctly and the load spring tightened down, the trigger bar should give your finger a pretty stout whack.  To the point that you won't want to try it twice.

-Ron

[flinchrocket]

It might be a good idea to install the lock bolts to secure the lock in its mortise, eliminating any problems
with the lock moving around while you install the triggers.

[thimble rig]

Call RE Davis.It could a weak spring.Goole their site to get the number.

[Bob Roller]

I can trip the sear with front trigger.  I can also trip it with a dow rod.  It does take a fair amount of pressure however that's relative to my perceptions.  The only interference is at the very top of the mortise past the trip point.  I believe the trigger is a Davis #1008 Golden Age Set Trigger.  What are the odds that there is something wrong with the main trigger spring?  I played with the load screw, but I did not notice an appreciable difference. I can pretty well stop the trigger bar by holding a finger over top and barely notice the little flick from the trigger bar.  I took my Pedersoli apart and there is a significant difference in the trigger spring, not the same trigger, but similar in design.

Change the preload on the rear trigger spring.

Bob Roller

[toddsndrsn]

In summary, install the lock bolts, call Davis about the trigger spring, possibly move the trigger forward.  Right now I'm leaning towards the spring being bad just from the fact that adjusting the screw doesn't seem to change anything and it doesn't hurt my finger.  I appreciate every ones input.  I'll take any free advice I can get so keep it coming.

[Don Stith]

Sounds to me like the trigger spring is bearing on the trigger plate; which is keeping it from applying force to the trigger.

[Dave B]

Don has the right thought here. If you have not tightened down the main spring screw do so. If you have and the rear trigger is still whimpy the tip of the main spring can be catching on the trigger bar area just before the rear trigger. You can fix this by removing metal at the corner of the trigger bar behind the rear trigger slot.  This sketch is not perfect but you get the Idea.

[Bob Roller]

Don has the right thought here. If you have not tightened down the main spring screw do so. If you have and the rear trigger is still whimpy the tip of the main spring can be catching on the trigger bar area just before the rear trigger. You can fix this by removing metal at the corner of the trigger bar behind the rear trigger slot.  This sketch is not perfect but you get the Idea.

I do this more often than not to get the action I want from the rear trigger.
Easily done with a small sharp pillar file.

Bob Roller

[Don Stith]

Thanks for the great sketch.  You depicted exactly what I meant
Don

[Captchee]

   sounds like your pre load is not heavy enough . the others have covered that .
 the only thing i would add is that  if after following Don and Bobs's advice  i would check your trigger inlet . make sure the main spring has enough movement.  When you pull the back trigger  the main spring rises  and applies load to the trigger. If however the rear trigger is hard to set , yet at the same time applies very little load  you may not be getting full movement of the spring itself .
The other issue that makes me think this maybe the case is that by looking at your photos , the rear trigger bar looks rather high . As such with  the trigger main spring tightened down , you may not get the lock to cock without first setting the  rear trigger .
 The reason for that is the trigger main spring applies downward force  to the trigger   until the spring bottoms out .  If the trigger is not adjusted properly , then the sear spring cannot over come the  trigger main spring  and the lock cannot be cocked with setting the triggers .

 If that was the case and you  loosened the trigger spring so as to lighten the preload  so that the lock would cock without setting the triggers , you have went to far and  need to check what Bob , Don and the others suggested .
 Thus check clearances , tighten the  main spring down some . We can then  look at  doing some work on the triggers so as to allow the lock to cock  with a proper load on the main spring .

[frogwalking]

The position of the triggers fore and aft, looks good to me.  I would certainly follow the good suggestions of other issues before moving the trigger plate.

[toddsndrsn]

I called Cabin Creek to ask about the triggers since I bought the kit through them.  There's a new trigger spring on the way.  Brad recommended replacing the spring first then trying to file the trigger plate as Bob suggested if replacing the spring doesn't work.  Apparently it's not too uncommon to have to file this down.  I guess you don't know until you ask the question.  I'll let you all know how this plays out.

Captchee, what do you mean by the trigger bar being high?  Are you suggesting it is inlet too far into the stock?  I have no problem with cocking the lock with the trigger in place.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

All you have asked in this thread is, 'is the trigger set in the correct place".  You have not said that there is a problem setting the triggers or firing the lock.  So, what is the problem?

[greybeard]

OK don't laugh but I have always made my own set triggers and my scientific test is to set the triggers, place a quarter on the top, set them off and if the quarter flips 12 inches up in the air they are strong enough to trip the sear.



how do you upload pictures

[T*O*F]

What seems obvious to me is that you will have to cock the triggers before you cock the lock.
Otherwise that rear trigger is always going to have tension on the sear bar, a potentially dangerous situation.

Any disagreement from the peanut gallery?