Help with Chisels , my turn to ask Advice

[Wyoduster]

I'm looking at Chisels and I've read a lot of the older posts... And I know this topic has been beat to death................. But until I'm understanding the uses of each ,Which would come from actual hand time. Its hard for a beginner like me to know which ones to buy..
 So I'm thinking Buying a SET to start. PFEIL intermediate set of 12 seems looks like it should fit the bill to get started.. OPINIONS??? What are the quality of RAMELSON chisels they look good.
  I know I'll build from the set and that can be over time but I got to start somewhere...

             

[Dennis Glazener]

PFEIL intermediate set of 12 seems looks like it should fit the bill to get started.. OPINIONS???

This has come up many times and almost always the answer is not to buy sets! I agree with what others have said. You will not use many of the chisels in the sets. Far better to buy a few of the essential ones and from there decide which others you need. I know that there have been many posts here telling which starter chisels to buy.

Here is a good link : http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=813.0
Dennis
 

[Eric Krewson]

I bought a fairly expensive set of Flex Cut carving chisels when I started building rifles, I don't use 1/3rd of them. One at a time is the way to go.

[Mike Brooks]

I can pretty much build a whole gun  from a blank with a 3/16 straight chisel and a #49 cabinet rasp.

[EC121]

I'm with Mike.  My experience has been that I can do most of the basic inletting with a 4mm straight chisel.  A small skew chisel is also helpful.  I recently bought a set of micro chisels(mainly because we went shopping at  Woodcraft).  I think they will help in the really tight corners.  Since I haven't tried any carving, I can't speak from that experience.  I had a friend who was an excellent carver.   He did his best work with a really sharp pocket knife and cleaned the carving up with emory board nail shapers.  Everyone has their own way of doing it.

[Jerry V Lape]

Sort of depends on what you are planning for a rifle.  If you just need the chisels for inletting a straight chisel and a double bevel skew 5mm skew would do most of it.  I would include a #2 or #3 gouge for work across the grain.  For carving the needs will increase significantly but buy them as you learn.  If you encounter a new requirement stop the work on something else until you get the right tool.  You will buy fewer unused chisels that way.  The following list is from the student requirements in a carving seminar taught by Jim Kibler and Ian Pratt -two of the best.

Straights:  2mm and 8mm
Skew double bevel: 5mm
#3 Sweep gouges:  5mm and 8mm
#5 Sweep gouges:  5mm and 8mm
#7 Sweep gouge:  4mm

After the class I added a #4 5mm, #6 5mm, #8  4mm.     I have a tray full of mistaken purchases that very seldom are used including all of the palm length gouges I had purchased earlier.  
  

[sz]

In the 48 years I have been building muzzleloaders I have accumulated about 40 gouges and 5 chisels.
However I am 100% in agreement with the other men here, do not buy a set.
I would recommend you get a 1/8" and a 1/16" straight chisel from PFEIL and then get a 1/4" a 1/2" a 3/4" and an 1" from Stanley at they local hardware store.

Order gouges as you need them.
The one to get before you get any others will be a 2MM sweep with a very shallow gullet like this one.
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/05B27/pfeil-swiss-made-4-sweep-gouge-25-mm-full-size.aspx

All others will come as and when you need them

[sqrldog]

I agree with Mike a rifle is doable with a minimum of chisels. I would add a round nose gouge to help with the nose of the lockplate. An interesting fact I made a list of the chisels recommended for carving by Mark Silver, Jim Kibler, and Jack Brooks; they all use mostly different chisels to carve even though they all use the stabbing method of carving. There is some overlap in chisel choices but not many listed are the same. Yet all do great carving using what they are comfortable with. One of the best riflesmiths I know does most of his carving outlines with a modified exacto styled knife. He said using the stabbing method he spent more time looking for the right chisel than he did carving. I believe H. House outlines with a knife from the videos I have seen of his carving. I'm going to put in a recommendation for Jim Kibler's carving informatio  and instruction book sold on his web site.  Having a copy of
a master carver's work to follow as you carve is helpful.  Tim

[rich pierce]

Think of tasks and build your chisels around them.

Straight chisels:
Narrow enough for trigger blade width, also thimble tabs.
1/8 or 3/16"
Bottom flat width big gun.
5/8" to 3/4". Saves time, optional

Round chisels:
Ramrod groove and thimble body size
Nose of lock size
Small for lock screw heads and spring bend inlets.

[Kermit]

Steve  (sz) is right. I sort of prefer Irwin (blue handles) to Stanley. The Stanley's are butt chisels and the Irwins are more bench chisels. If you start slow you can find good old chisels and gouges in antique and thrift stores, garage sales, and flea markets. A greaty source for which ones and how to rehab them are in articles by Bob Smalser who has shown up here a few times. Maybe worth a look-see at his articles.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/bSmalser/bobSmalser-index.asp

[thimble rig]

First how many guns do you plan on making?I mean is this just a hobby maybe build one or two then I'm done.If that is so then I wouldn't get the expensive ones.Wood craft has some good ones that don't cost an arm and a leg.You might have to sharpen them more.But that's not a big deal.I use the offset chisels from track for a lot of my inletting work.Lets me get the bottom of the mortises a lot better.They are around 20 bucks .Learn how to sharpen youre chisels.Watch out for flee markets and garage sales.you can always pick up deals there.

[Acer Saccharum]

I can pretty much build a whole gun  from a blank with a 3/16 straight chisel and a #49 cabinet rasp.

It shows. 

[Acer Saccharum]

First how many guns do you plan on making?

You KNOW you can't make just one gun, right?



You can do most of a gun with an assortment of 1/16 to 1/4 wide straights. Almost all inletting of barrel and lock.

A small deep gouge, 7 or 9 sweep, 5 mm wide. For nibbling cuts on lock nose inlet, lock internals, stabbing patchbox curves.

A fishtail gouge #3 sweep 5 and 12 mm wide. For paring inletting cuts across the grain, backgrounding any carving.

A small VEE tool for lines along the forestock, cheekpiece decoration, under line along buttstock.

[Mike Brooks]

I can pretty much build a whole gun  from a blank with a 3/16 straight chisel and a #49 cabinet rasp.

It shows. 

I'm going to have to kick your buttocks up to you're ears now sonny......

[thimble rig]

Do we need to make you 2 go stand in the corner?Behave or else.

[David Rase]

I can pretty much build a whole gun  from a blank with a 3/16 straight chisel and a #49 cabinet rasp.

It shows.  

I'm going to have to kick your buttocks up to you're ears now sonny......

I'll pay money to see that.    Remember Tom, no wearing of your viking fighting helmet during the melee.


David

[Wyoduster]

Thanks guys.. Very helpful.... as avid shooter and gun guy... I do plan on building more guns..  in fact already have a stock and barrel in reserve waiting.. I believe in buying good tools I might be in my 50's but life is just starting.  Maybe thats why I drink better bourbon too  I'll refrain from buying a set... and pick up a few that are mentioned.
 I do have a handful and am in the forming/sanding part of my first gun build.. got this far with what I had.. but now I'm ready to put in a patchbox and other inlays and I'm getting scared...
  Thanks.

[Mike Brooks]

I find more bourbon and less tools make a better gun.... Actually for you smarty pants fellows, I do have a wide selection of sweeps, gouges and flat chisels. I just don't use too many. As mentioned, a sweep that fits the lock nose is handy and for massive wood removal a 1" flat or a mongo sweep/gouge is real handy. Just don't go overboard with tools when you're just starting out. Buy what you need as you find a need.

[thimble rig]

Don't get scared.Take youre time you will do fine.,If you have any troubles just ask.

[bama]

I love carving chisels and gouges and have 40+ but my suggestion is to buy a double bevel 1/4" straight carving chisel and a 1/8"and a 1/4" skew double bevel carving chisels. A 1/16", a 1/8", a 1/4, a 3/8" and a 1/2" straight single bevel chisels. My straight single bevel chisels are made by  Marples. These will help you in building a rifle and do a good bit of carving. Now as time goes on and you build more you will realise when you need something different to do the job easier or better, then go get the chisel you need. This way you will only have the tools you need and not have a lot of chisels that collect dust.

just as important or maybe more so than a chisel is something to properly sharpen a chisel. A dull chisel will never produce skilled work no matter of the skill of the hand using it.

Good luck

[Mark Elliott]

Sort of depends on what you are planning for a rifle.  If you just need the chisels for inletting a straight chisel and a double bevel skew 5mm skew would do most of it.  I would include a #2 or #3 gouge for work across the grain.  For carving the needs will increase significantly but buy them as you learn.  If you encounter a new requirement stop the work on something else until you get the right tool.  You will buy fewer unused chisels that way.  The following list is from the student requirements in a carving seminar taught by Jim Kibler and Ian Pratt -two of the best.

Straights:  2mm and 8mm
Skew double bevel: 5mm
#3 Sweep gouges:  5mm and 8mm
#5 Sweep gouges:  5mm and 8mm
#7 Sweep gouge:  4mm

After the class I added a #4 5mm, #6 5mm, #8  4mm.     I have a tray full of mistaken purchases that very seldom are used including all of the palm length gouges I had purchased earlier.  
  

I could get behind that recommendation.   I pretty much use 3, 5, 7, and 9s in a 5mm and 12-13mm for carving.   I use my 1/4" and 1/2" bench chisels more than anything else.   I have lots of chisels that I don't use.   

[Eric Krewson]

Stay away from the Lee Valley yellow plastic handle straight chisels. I bought 3 or 4 of them and found they won't hold an edge and the cutting edge will chip out like a flaked flint if you use a carving mallet with them.

[Acer Saccharum]

Must have touched a nerve...


I am laughing my buttocks off. Thanks for the kind thoughts, Mike and Rase.

[P.W.Berkuta]

I'm looking at Chisels and I've read a lot of the older posts... And I know this topic has been beat to death................. But until I'm understanding the uses of each ,Which would come from actual hand time. Its hard for a beginner like me to know which ones to buy..
 So I'm thinking Buying a SET to start. PFEIL intermediate set of 12 seems looks like it should fit the bill to get started.. OPINIONS??? What are the quality of RAMELSON chisels they look good.
  I know I'll build from the set and that can be over time but I got to start somewhere..

             

Buy a few of the basics as already mentioned - straight, sweep, maybe a fishtail, I don't use skews much. I do recommend you go to as many flea-markets and keep an eye out for the older chisels which can be had for a bargain (a lot of dickering here) and if you are handy make the "special" ones yourself. I use some big Henry Taylor chisels (1" to 1.5" #1 & #3) along with a carvers draw knife for initial stock shaping  .

[David Rase]

Must have touched a nerve...


I am laughing my buttocks off. Thanks for the kind thoughts, Mike and Rase.

Tom,
Just remember, no matter how many chisels and gouges you have, your project can never be better than the barrel inlet you start off with. 
Now I am laughing my buttocks off.
David