Split from the topic "Assembled Mountain Rifle Kit Update"

[thimble rig]

Now my son is right handed and left eye dominat.The military makes him shoot left handed.So now I have to make him a left handed rifle.So I thought  I could get a chambers left hand gun makers lock and cut the plate to match the design that he wants.

[Mike Brooks]

Bob, I have shot SXS flint guns at skeets for many years. To be honest I couldn't tell you which lock went off. Never could figure out why a guy had to have a single barrel rifle with a lock on the left. I made a lefty .32 years ago for my brother and shot it for a while. No big deal....

[Mike Brooks]

Already have squirrel rifles I'm broke out in .32 cal. Rifles. Just wishing. Reminds of a time somefriends and I were sitting and talking and one said he wished he owned 10,000 acres of land the other said while you're wishing go ahead and wish it had a fence around it.😊
As to the matter of left handed versions there are Southern rifles with locks bearing a resemblance to a Siler. The recent Zenas Alexander posted by Mike Briggs is an example. Other's in the Ivey book. I admit they're rare but so are left handed rifles. Now I will tell you quickly that I wish Chambers would build a lefty late Ketland. The problem is economic not enough lefties to pay for the tooled masters, molds etc. Tim

Gots to remember that "ZA" gun is early, probably pre 1800. And, even at that early date is the rare exception. Also, in my meager estimation the lock on the "ZA" gun has been reconverted, Siler cock and pan assembly for sure. Makes me wonder if it isn't a total replacement..... probably isn't though.

[Rolf]

Bob, I have shot SXS flint guns at skeets for many years. To be honest I couldn't tell you which lock went off. Never could figure out why a guy had to have a single barrel rifle with a lock on the left. I made a lefty .32 years ago for my brother and shot it for a while. No big deal....

1. Don't like the jet from the vent that close to my face. I use rigth handed locks only on pistols.
2. Akward to prim the pan when you are lefthanded. Have to reach over the barrel.
3. Looks strange to have the lock and cheek piece on the same side.

I've bougth a 300# mill and a lathe and plan to make my own lefthanded parts as needed.

Best regards
ROlf

[Bob Roller]

Bob, I have shot SXS flint guns at skeets for many years. To be honest I couldn't tell you which lock went off. Never could figure out why a guy had to have a single barrel rifle with a lock on the left. I made a lefty .32 years ago for my brother and shot it for a while. No big deal....

1. Don't like the jet from the vent that close to my face. I use rigth handed locks only on pistols.
2. Akward to prim the pan when you are lefthanded. Have to reach over the barrel.
3. Looks strange to have the lock and cheek piece on the same side.

I've bougth a 300# mill and a lathe and plan to make my own lefthanded parts as needed.

Best regards
ROlf

I made ONE left handed rifle,a caplock halfstock from walnut with silver butt plate and trigger guard.
It was made for Bob Bartee,my barber and he's long deceased. I have never seen the gun since but
I suspect his brother in law got it..
Buying the lathe and mill will save a LOT of time and you will develop unique skills making lock parts that
are seldom seen today,at least over here in the USA. I hope you can get proper or at least useable materials
in Norway for lock making. I use 0-1 for sears and flys,1144 Stressproof for tumblers,12L14 for screws and
1018 for the mainspring to tumbler link. Springs are 1075 and have been from my shop for over 50 years.
I'll be 80 on Easter Sunday and am winding down my shop work to maybe 4 jobs a month including locks.

Bob Roller

[smart dog]

Hi Bob,
I apologize to others because my question is off topic, but do you case harden and temper the tumbler to mainspring link or do you leave it soft?

dave

[billd]

Is 4 screws holding the butt plate traditional?

[JTR]

That's a fine looking rifle and I like it! Looks a lot like my E-Bay special! 

John

[Bob Roller]

Hi Bob,
I apologize to others because my question is off topic, but do you case harden and temper the tumbler to mainspring link or do you leave it soft?

dave

dave,
I leave it "soft". I. had one break about 50 or more years ago but I have never had a report on a
broken link on the locks I have made since.

Bob Roller

[David Rase]

Is 4 screws holding the butt plate traditional?

Bill, I have seen 4 screws used on several southern longrifles.  I used 4 on this hand forged buttplate for my Gillespie.
David

[frogwalking]

I did not hear any comments on the request for the 50 caliber mountain rifle.  I am sure there are many here who have dedicated much more study to the Tennessee mountain rifle than I have...but.  I have seen information on one original such rifle with a .40 caliber bore.  All others I saw were smaller; most between .32 and .38.  An exception to this was a large caliber 14 pound rifle owned by an old man who lived in the Sugarland community.  He was the unofficial bear hunter for the communities around there before the park was built.  I have seen no other description of this rifle, so do not know if it had the traditional large drop and deep crescent buttplate.  I would personally not want to shoot a Tennessee rifle with a Rice A weight 50 caliber barrel, but then, I am old and skinny.

[Mike Brooks]

4 screws eh? That blasted old thing sure won't fall off!

[sqrldog]

Frog W I have not said anything about an A wght. .50 cal. I said it needed a brother in .50. Guess I should have said big sister because I meant a B wght barrel and after all rifles are usually she. B wght barrels come in all the other cal. Plus .45 and .50.  There were mountain rifles over .40 cal. Bivins shows two Gillespie rifles one .45 and one .43. I am in agreement with you that most were small calibers but as always there are exceptions.  What's the world coming to can't use a Siler lock or barrel over .40 cal. on a southern rifle. Tim

[frogwalking]

Tim,

I am building a small hunting rifle for my grand daughter.  It has a tiny swamped.40 caliber Rice bbl. 31 inches long, a small Siler lock, a fowler stock and a very small Lancaster buttplate.  Oh, and a modified Harper Ferry triggerguard.  The thimbles and nosecap are all for a pistol. God knows where the side plate came from.  It is German silver and pierced.  I don't think I will post pictures here as it would give some apoplexy.  I like it and bet she does too.

[sqrldog]

My kind of rifle Frogwalking.

[Mike Brooks]

Frog W I have not said anything about an A wght. .50 cal. I said it needed a brother in .50. Guess I should have said big sister because I meant a B wght barrel and after all rifles are usually she. B wght barrels come in all the other cal. Plus .45 and .50.  There were mountain rifles over .40 cal. Bivins shows two Gillespie rifles one .45 and one .43. I am in agreement with you that most were small calibers but as always there are exceptions.  What's the world coming to can't use a Siler lock or barrel over .40 cal. on a southern rifle. Tim

All my personal guns are androgynous, Don't want no funny business going on in the corner....

[oldtravler61]

What about letting an amateur build one. You might just get a different perspective into it's pros an cons of building one. A  pro gunbuilder shouldn't have any problems. The newbie just might see a difficulty that a pro wouldn't give a second thought to. Just a thought

[ddoyle]

I got$175 for the labor on the mechanisms + whatever L&R charged for the external parts needed.As far as I know,the locks are still working but the $175 is LONG gone so IMHO the "Big bucks"argument is not valid.

Bob, Sorry if I was not clear, the big bucks comment was directed at the fairly priced rifle that I posted a pic of (and big bucks applies to it).  I could not agree more that 175 dollars to have a lock smith with 50 years experience build the mechanics for a set of flintlock castings is a deal/bargain/steal beyond compare.

That said at any price the only "off the shelf" left hand lock available in kit quantities that I am aware of that can be relied upon not to need specialized after sales service is the Chamber's Siler or gunmaker lock. Selling a gun kit with a siler means that the builder can use it as it comes.

I have said it before and believe that the world would be a better place if all locks cost 500 dollars (with quality to match)  and they were all mounted alongside barrels that cost the same. 

Sorry for the misunderstanding I am loathe to be responsible for you to be wasting precious filing resources on typing!

[Bob Roller]

I got$175 for the labor on the mechanisms + whatever L&R charged for the external parts needed.As far as I know,the locks are still working but the $175 is LONG gone so IMHO the "Big bucks"argument is not valid.

Bob, Sorry if I was not clear, the big bucks comment was directed at the fairly priced rifle that I posted a pic of (and big bucks applies to it).  I could not agree more that 175 dollars to have a lock smith with 50 years experience build the mechanics for a set of flintlock castings is a deal/bargain/steal beyond compare.

That said at any price the only "off the shelf" left hand lock available in kit quantities that I am aware of that can be relied upon not to need specialized after sales service is the Chamber's Siler or gunmaker lock. Selling a gun kit with a siler means that the builder can use it as it comes.

I have said it before and believe that the world would be a better place if all locks cost 500 dollars (with quality to match)  and they were all mounted alongside barrels that cost the same. 

Sorry for the misunderstanding I am loathe to be responsible for you to be wasting precious filing resources on typing!

ddoyle,
You are NOT wasting any of my resources at any level.According to the late Lynton McKenzie the left and right locks as used by Manton in the flint era would take all the salary a top school master could earn in a year.
I inquired to Chris Clark in Wolverhampton England about the later "4 pin" caplocks at todays prices and he said a pair would be about 1500 Pounds Sterling including the hammers.This was in 2007.
I got about $800 for a left and right set of Alex Henry style caplocks a few years ago. I wouldn't take such an order now due to arthritic right wrist.
I have tried to the best of my ability to make these odd little mechanisms (locks) to be as reliable as possible and work with the assumption that they might be used in a severe cold climate.One fellow in Alaska years ago shot my Hawken caplock in -50 cold and cracked the hammer which was cast from malleable iron.The mechanism didn't present a problem.
Thanks for the feedback to my comment about lock prices.

Bob Roller

[J Henry]

  Think this over,I can buy a finished left hand  Rifle made by Lyman,  but they do not offer the same left handed rifle in a kit? If they have all of the components and they assemble it,,why can't I get the same components in kit form and assemble it myself?

[Mike Brooks]

  Think this over,I can buy a finished left hand  Rifle made by Lyman,  but they do not offer the same left handed rifle in a kit? If they have all of the components and they assemble it,,why can't I get the same components in kit form and assemble it myself?

I suppose they are trying to discourage left handedness.

[hudson]

Noting an interest in a left hand kit I thought I might be able to help. I built a left hand bean type mountain rifle from Pecatonica River purchased at Friendship. Not cretin if you would call it a kit or a parts package.  I made most of the small parts including the nose cap. Inletting was good. Bit extra inletting work needed for the lollypop tang. But plate was altered for my own taste. Trigger guard was re-bent to allow more room for fingers behind triggers. Not much of a problem here. This was my first build of a full stock and an experience. This kit is definitely on the plus side compared to my first build many years ago with a CVA kit. Worked using plans from the Log Cabin Shop package, with a few other references for a Bean.

[retired fella]

Years ago when building my first rifle I got a Douglas barrel and a hunk of walnut from my brother-in-law but being left handed could not find a lefty lock anywhere.  Finally settled on the left lock of a shotgun.  I know that you PC guys are cringing at this point.  Anyway, it's a strange looking beast but it would shoot.  Hence my entry into this madness.