Patterning a smooth bore

[Jeff Peters]

I need some help
Hoping to use a flint smooth bore 20 ga to hunt turkeys this spring
The gun is from a kit that I put together a few years ago
The kit manufacturer is one of the best kit and lock builders
I've been trying to pattern the gun without much luck
The problem is that the pattern is very spread out at only 25 & 30 yrds
I'm loading it with 1- 1/4 oz of shot
I've tried powder charges from 50 gr to 70 gr of 2F
Over the powder I placed a over powder card then a 1/2 inch lubed felt wad, the shot then an over shot card
I've even tried cutting the felt wad thickness down thinking that it maybe blowing through the shot
I've shot the pattern off a bench with sand bags on a sheet of paper 3 feet x 3 feet with a turkey head silhouette on a 8-1/2x 11 sheet of paper in the center. The shot is constantly all over the 3x3 paper
What can I do to improve this

Thanks in advance
Jeff

[smallpatch]

Have it jug choked.  You'll be amazed.

[Dave Marsh]

I had mine jug choked however you probably don't have enough time between now and turkey season to get it mailed off, choked, returned and then patterned.  I load my 20 ga. with 80 grains of FFG, then a lubed 1/8" wonder wad followed by 1 1/8 oz. of mixed 4.s and 6's and then one over the shot card.  Worked pretty good prior to the jug choking and real good after.    Good luck.

Dave

[WKevinD]

I've had good luck with making butcher paper shot cartridges dipped in lube with (paper wasp) wadding over powder and over the shot cartridge.
It is not as good as a jug choke but it helps.

[RichG]

cyl. bore is a 20- 25 yd gun. Not hc but you can try plastic shot cups. if you can find the one that aren't pre-slit you might be able to increase your range until you can choke your barrel. try Magnum research. they also have buffer material and copper and nickel shot. the harder shot will give you a more even pattern but maybe not a tighter pattern.

[Tony N]

Who does the jug choking, and is it true that you can no longer use it for RB?

[Jeff Peters]

Thank for the advice
I was thinking of trying the plastic shot cup
I found some in my old reloading supplies. One 20 ga type is nice a snug fit to the bore but they have the four slits
Thinking of putting a lubed wad behind it?

What is jug choking, and how is it done?
After it's completed will I be able to shoot patched round ball out of the gun?

This site is the place to learn
Thanks
Jeff

[smallpatch]

That's the nice thing about a jug choke.  Still shoots ball just fine.
I know Bobby Hoyt used to do jug choke. 

[wattlebuster]

Danny Caywood does a great job
http://www.caywoodguns.com/

Lowell Tennison but I have somehow lost his contact info.

[Dave Marsh]

Lowell Tennyson.  I know he lives in Iowa but can't find his information either.

Dave

[bob in the woods]

I use 80 gr of FFg, and shoot 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 oz. of # 4's    It makes my 20 an honest 30 yard turkey gun.  I played around with shot cups made from cereal box cardboard, but the results were inconsistent....especially at closer ranges.
At 35 yards, I might be tempted with the above load, but I usually carry my 10 bore when turkey hunting.  I don't want to jug choke my 20 because  it's my partridge gun, and I need all the "spread" I can get 

[Dave Marsh]

Yes sir.  Lots of great ones in Iowa.....think.   

Dave

[Jeff Peters]

What is a Jug choke?
How is it done?
Is this something that the barrel manufacturer would do if asked?
Jeff

[Robby]

Jeff, It is an enlargement of the bore about an inch from the muzzle as shown.


I have done four barrels using this tool http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=barrel+hone&ksubmit=y

The expansion chamber itself is about three inches long. I cannot see any negative effect to the accuracy of patched round balls.
Robby

[L. Akers]

I have jugged a few shotguns using a cylinder hone (available at auto parts stores).  Hone a little then go see what it did to your pattern.  Hone in small increments and test patterns often.  I use a 50-50 mix of motor oil and kerosene as a honing lubricant.

[Daryl]

I have jugged a few shotguns using a cylinder hone (available at auto parts stores).  Hone a little then go see what it did to your pattern.  Hone in small increments and test patterns often.  I use a 50-50 mix of motor oil and kerosene as a honing lubricant.

I do or rather did the same thing when altering the chokes on 2 of my shotguns, except I used WD40 as I bought it by the gallon then.  It would be a simple matter to hone in a jug choke with this hone. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/shotgun-tools/barrel-hones-accessories/shotgun-barrel-hone-prod7930.aspx   I got my too-tightly choked 10 bore to go from 67% both tubes to 94% and 96%, right and left - 30" circle at 40yards using lead #2's. You have to count the pellets in and the pellets out (on the paper) to be precise. Yeah - that's rather anal, but the right way to do it.

[Jeff Peters]

Thanks to all that replied
This was another education for me
Sounds like Jug choking is it, but I may wait until after I first try a few things such as load changes and plastic shot cups this weekend
Jeff

[bob in the woods]

Watch out for melted plastic deposits in your bore. 

[Daryl]

Yes- the BP flame-out is much hotter than smokeless in modern shells. The BP flame has a tendency to melt the plastic and coat the bore and fouling with it.  Placing an 1/8" hard card between the plastic cup and powder can help prevent this.

[Daryl]

Some barrels are really skinny and might not support a really deep jug choke as some 'smiths' like to grind. However, the choke can improve patterns even if it is only a few thousandths of an inch deep.  The reason is as the shot, then wad column enters the constriction at the end of the barrel, the shot column is squeezed tightly together and then the wad is retarded slightly, allowing the shot to maintain it's tightness as it starts flying freely, without the wads pushing into it from the muzzleblast.

I have almost an Improved Cylinder choke, about 010" on my 20 bore flinter and due to the black powder loading, it throws beautiful Modified patterns using standard card and fiber wads.  I shoot an 82gr. measure of shot and a 75 gr. measure of 2f.  .125" card on the powder, 1/2" fiber wad, then shot, then thin "B" wad over the shot.  It also shoots nicely for closer range shooting with just the 1/8" card, then shot then "B" wad.

[Tony N]

Sending my barrel to Mr. Caywood to have it jugged. Should have it back in a few weeks. Should still be plenty of time to chase turkeys!

~Tony

[Jeff Peters]

Well I tried different amounts of powder and shot.
Also tried 1/4, 1/2 inch wads, plastics shot cups even used scotch tape to hold the end of the plastic shot cup closed longer in flight
I had very little improvement in tightening the shot pattern on this smooth bore
The best was 70 grns powder over powder card 1/4 inch lubes felt patch Remington shot cup with one wrap of scotch tape around the shot cup1-1/8 oz shot and a over shot card
Still is a very open pattern at 25 yrds, would be good for grousebut no way for turkey
I guess I'll look further into jug choking it
I measured the bore and the steel there is only .09 thick
Is this to thin to jug choke

Thanks for all of your help
Jeff

[Daryl]

.090" should easily support .010" jug, each side for .020" total.  The pressure is very low near the muzzle, but it is enough to blow the over powder wad through the shot cloud at the muzzle as the shot exits. A choke retards the wad to prevent that, and the concentrated shot (squeezed together from the choke) stays tight longer instead of instantly expanding, then getting the wad blown into it as happens with a cylinder bore.

[Jeff Peters]

Thank you Daryl
That makes sense
Jeff

[galudwig]

I've read that you can still shoot round ball from a jug choked barrel and that it may even improve accuracy.  Is there any concern about the patch separating from the ball while passing through the jug or does that happening help explain why accuracy might improve?