Disaster - Epoxied barrel to stock

[Spyridon1219]

I apprehensively bedded the breech and tang area of my stock with Acraglass gel last night then went down this morning to find my barrel firmly attached to the stock. I applied several thick coats of wax to the barrel and filled the voids where the breech plug meets the barrel with playdough before clamping the barrel in.. So how bad am I screwed? How much work am I looking at to save the barrel, and what are the chances the breech plug is epoxied to it? This is a very costly and discouraging mistake. Live and learn I guess.

[Joey R]

Just lately someone on this board said he puts the rifle in the freezer and the parts release. May have to get it frosty cold but heck,it's worth a try. Good luck.

[JCKelly]

Only thing I know is to hope you have a friend with a rifle-size deep freeze. preferably to make dry ice. That very very low temperature has been used to pop the epoxy off the metal.

[t.caster]

I would try heating the barrel with your industrial heat gun if you have one or even a hair dryer might work.
Good luck!

[Curt Lyles]

I would heat a peice of hot roll steel  hot and slide in the barrel and let it set till the barrel is warm.it should pop right out .be careful how you take the barrel out thou ,try bumpin the heel of the stock on the floor and be ready to catch barrel.

.curt

[bama]

First make sure that you have all the excess Acra Glass removed from the outside of the tang and barrel so no bedding material is overlapping the barrel or tang. Next run an exacto blade down the side of the barrel, gently down the side of the barrel. I do this just to make sure that the bedding material is not sticking to the barrel at the top edge of the barrel channel. This prevents popping any wood loose from the top edge of the barrel channel. Next take a heat gun and warm the barrel and the breech area. If you do not have the stock finished this should be no problem. Acra Glass starts to break down and lose it's grip at 200 degrees.  After warming the barrel clamp the stock in a good vice behind the lock area and gently start trying to lift the barrel out of the channel at the muzzle end. Let me restate GENTLY! Keep applying heat to the barrel with the heat gun and it will eventually turn loose. Go slow and be patient it will work, ask me how I know.

Also if the rear lock bolt hole was drilled run a drill back through this hole to make sure no bedding material is in the hole. If the stock is finished then heat a bolt or rod that is slightly under bore size red hot and slide it down the barrel and let it set there until it warms the breech area. you may have to do this a couple of times to get the breech area hot. You can still heat with a heat gun also you just have to be more carefull.

I stopped using acra glass years ago because it was harder to use and you really need to use the release agent that is reccomeded with it. I preferred to us Micro Bed instead because it was easier to mix and wax could be used as a release agent. I never did like trying to remove the blue film that was left by the Acra Glass release agent. Unfortunately Micro Bed is no longer on the market. Brownnells carried it for awhile and then sold it under thier name for awhile but they no longer carry it.

So now I am looking for another product to replace it with. Just remember when you do have to bed a stock, release agent is your friend and that any and all places that can hold bedding material where you do not want it to be should be filled. I use wood putty to do this. It dries fairly quickly and can be removed from the metal without to much effort.

Good luck my friend, go slow be patient, be gentle all is not lost.

[Daryl]

I personally use JB compound (steel filled) for bedding stocks now. I use synthetic axel grease as a release agent - wonderful stuff.

[flinchrocket]

Sometimes just the rough surface of a barrel will make it hard to get out. I draw file the flats before I bed the barrel. You may have to use several heating and cooling session's. Also, like Bama suggested, make
sure to open up any holes and clean off any Acura glass that squeezed out the top. I use a sharp small
wood chisel along the sides of the barrel channel, if you push it straight in against the barrel the pieces of
dried acra glass should come loose.
     Bama have you tried pro bed 2000 from muzzleloader builder supply? I have been using it for several
years and am pleased with it. It will turn dark, almost black after its cured with LMF stain.

[jerrywh]

 Stick a red hot rod down the barrel and let it heat the barrel up. Then try it. If that doesn't work do it twice and get it a little hotter. That will not get the barrel hot enough to do any harm to the wood or the barrel. If it doesn't come out hot let it cool and then try it. Hit the top of the barrel with a wooden hammer some also. It can't be too bad if you waxed it.

[rich pierce]

Things to worry about are if epoxy sort of traps the underlugs or breech especially as mentioned where the rear lock bolt goes through.

You could try putting a tight fitting dowel in the muzzle, rest the gun on the cushioned toe of the stock, and hold it horizontal, with the fore stock elevated, holding on the dowel.  Now smack the top flat of the barrel with a wooden mallet, whack, whack, whack from just behind the front sight toward the entry thimble area.  Repeat a few times.  The stock may begin to peel away from the barrel.  And you will see if it is trapped at the underlugs.

[Majorjoel]

 I fortunately live in the cold cold north were the winter temps plummet well below freezing. I just leave the rifle outside overnight. I then take my stainless steel loading rod with a proper sized jag with patch run down the barrel. Also with a muzzle protector installed.  The rod has a wooden grip handle that I gently tap with a wooden mallet. I place a soft padded quilt on the floor where I work over in case the barrel escapes the stock unexpectedly.  I do not put the stock in a vise as that puts a pressure hold on the stuck pair. I straddle the rifle between my legs using my left hand to hold the forestock barrel side down, butt on the padded floor.  

[alex e.]

If the lock bolt was drilled through the breech plug there might be a ''lock'' even if it was plugged with wax. The ''squish '' factor moves things. Running a drill bit thru the bolt holes might help alleviate things some.

[Mark Elliott]

I would apply heat to the breech area of the barrel with a torch.   You need to be careful not to scorch your wood.   If all else fails,  acetone dissolves epoxy.   I have taken apart epoxied stocks with acetone and q-tips.   Good luck!   

[JCKelly]

I learned about the cold approach at the Budd Co, Philadelphia PA about 1963
Sounds like it works for Majorjoel

COLD is a lot less likely to cause problems than is HOT.

Heat causes metal to expand in volume, and often distort. Yes, it shrinks just the same with cold, but if Majorjoel's cold night is -30F, and his house a comfy 70F, that is at the  most a 100F temperature differential about the barrel.
The heat you guys are talking about is a lot more than 100F hotter locally, uncontrolled and can well warp your barrel.

Huh?

IF YOU GET IT TOO HOT IT WILL WARP. The god of mechanical engineering, Stephen Timoshenko, calculated that a temperature differential of 200F, or less, can permanently bend a piece of metal. Any metal.

There are men who can precisely straighten steel shafts just by playing a torch on them correctly.

John Hall knew that metals expand when he wrote about the operation of his breech-loading flintlock in 1816: "The joint behind the receiver is made rather open, that the receiver may expand freely as it grows hot, and the hole through which the axle-pin is made long for the same purpose - because metals always swell with heat."

Oh, well.

From 1974 through 2008 my job included the effects of temperature differential on metal. Most of the high-temperature (above 1000F) problems that we saw had to do with the fact that metal expands in volume when heated. Very few people ever understood this, though experienced hi-temp guys have been saying the same bloody thing since about 1924.

I used to wish I could just get otherwise good engineers up to the level of John Hall in 1816.

Never happened.

Just FREEZE the thing to get it apart. Leave your torch for something else.

[jerrywh]

 You guys worry too much. How long have gunsmiths been soldering on ribs, You can heat a muzzle loading gun barrel up to 1400 at the breech with out any worry at all. How many barrels have been heated to pour pewter nose caps.  Even Smith and Wesson will tell you you can heat a barrel to 800 but no more. How many sights and lugs have been soldered on with lead solder? The way some of you talk it isn't safe to run hot water down the barrel. Get real. Fear FEAR. Double rifles are brazed at the breech.  
  Yes if you heat a barrel even 100° on one side it will move and when it cools it will move right back where it was. If you heat it past about 800 it on one side it will not move back where it was. probably closer to 1000°.
 If you turn it fed hot all the way around it will probably choke it. Been there done that more than once.

[Ky-Flinter]

Spyridon1219,

If you filled every nook and cranny with clay and applied plenty of wax, the barrel should come out without heroic measures.  Every time I bed a barrel, I have a devil of a time getting it out for the first time.  Acraglass advertises a skin-tight job, so it's going to be difficult to remove the barrel.  Patience and persistence.

-Ron

[B.Habermehl]

If you know somebody in the food service business, have them put your project in their walk in freezer overnight. Otherwise use heat epoxies mostly can't tolerate much more than 200 degrees. I use heat to deliberately break loose epoxy on stuff I find difficult to hold for one job or another. BJH

[oldtravler61]

Just a thought. Your barrel when bedded. Will be a bugger to get out. Follow Ron advice. When I use accraglas I wax the barrel or apply a release agent. But before I put the barrel in I put a length of Saran wrap over the stock. Then press the barrel in an wipe the excess off. Chuckle if yeah want. But it work's.

[FALout]

Would be nice if original poster would let us know how it's going.  I've always used car wax or floor wax on metal parts with no problems.  Unless there was a lot of ooze out which could clamp the barrel in place, it should pull out.  Maybe since there isn't much wood forward of this area, the OP is afraid to pull on the barrel to get it out?  Seeing how he posted that he tried to remove barrel the next morning, it should come out fairly easy, takes a little more then 24 hrs (depending on temps) for full cure. Guess we will have to wait and see.

[Boompa]

  Lots of good advise from members here. I've only bedded a few MLs but have glassed at least 100 modern bolt action rifles over the years. I just want to emphasize that an epoxy bedded barrel can be a bear to pop out, especially when it's in a full length stock.  It is rarely a matter of simply pulling it apart by hand.
     If you've coated all surfaces w/ a release agent and filled all potential snag points w/ clay, I'd venture to say the bedding material has pushed some of the clay back to the point of creating a snag.  I often have to take a heavy hardwood dowel and place it into the barrel, then hold the gun in hand while giving the dowel a good rap on the work bench. The dowel provides added leverage.

[Spyridon1219]

Thanks for all the tips. I now have at least have some hope that all is not lost. I haven't had a chance to make another attempt since my first post. I'll try again tomorrow after work, and use some heat if I can't get it to budge. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Robby]

Before you try the heat or cold, pry the barrel away from the wood at the muzzle end and put as much stress on the wood as you dare, without cracking it, while under stress, give the breech area a few sharp raps with a rawhide or wooden mallet. If you did all the prep correctly as you say you did, it should pop apart. If not, then go with the more involved procedures as described. Best of luck to you!
Robby

[FALout]

I agree with Robbie, don't use heat except as a last resort, too much heat and the bedding could get destroyed.  Give the barrel good rap at the muzzle back toward the breach, then try to pull apart.

[jerrywh]

 The problem with asking advise on a forum is that there is always four of five people who never did it but will tell exactly how it's done. What is the poor guy supposed to do now?

[oldtravler61]

Jerrywh  That is why I use the saran wrap. Have bed alot of modern an a few muzzeloaders. But the processes are the same. When they stick, they stick. But even when you do it right. They still come out hard sometimes.