Author Topic: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles....the hard way  (Read 9434 times)

Offline David Rase

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Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles....the hard way
« on: March 27, 2016, 01:36:13 AM »
I am starting a build for a client who wants a late Virginia longrifle in the style of John Sheetz.  He wants it to be somewhat fancy so I am going to be using quite a bit of silver wire as well as silver inlays and sheet silver accents on the steel furniture.   I thought I would document some of the silver work on this gun for the ALR.  The first items I am making are the entry pipe and thimbles.  Though this tutorial is not specifically about making ramrod pipes, I thought I would include a few photos at the beginning outlining the process I use to make pipe blanks.  I only detailed a few of the high lights for forming your own pipes.  I normally use .040" sheet stock for most of my pipes but chose a thicker material to start with in order to have sufficient silver material to file the decorative wedding rings. 




1 This photo shows the rough blank I am starting with.  I am making a 1 1/2" long pipe for a 5/16" ramrod.  The blank is 1 9/16" x 1 9/16" square.  Since I am going to apply 21 gauge (.025" thick) sterling silver sheet bands to the ends of the pipes I have selected 18 gauge  (.050" thick) mild sheet steel.


This photo shows the first 2 bends needed to form a ramrod pipe.  I determine where the bends go by multiplying the diameter .312" by Pi 3.14 and then adding the thickness of the steel.  .312" x 3.14 = .979" + .050" = 1.029". 


In this photo you see where I have made a U-shaped bend.  This is done by setting the tabs on the open jaws of my vise, laying a piece of round stock lengthwise down the center and hitting it with a cross peen hammer until I have the U shape.



Here you can see the completed rough pipe.  Once I have the U-shape made, I then place the U shaped blank between the vise jaws tabs so that the jaws make contact with the ends of the tabs.  I then place a 19/64" transfer punch or drill bit in the U groove and start closing the vise jaws.  I reposition the thimble blank in the vise jaws, this time squeezing the sides of the tabs while maintaining the transfer punch in the groove and squeeze down on the vise until the tabs are touching each other.   I then remove the 19/64" punch and take a piece of 5/16" round stock, apply a bit of lubricant and drive it through the opening, swaging the hole perfectly round.



For this particular set of pipes I soldered the tabs together and then  cut them back 1/4" on each end.  Since I will be putting these pipes on a mandrel in my later on I wanted the added security of having the pipe tabs soldered together.     




Here I have one of the pipe blanks mounted on a mandrel and set up in my lathe.  I squared up the ends of the pipes and adjusted the overall length to 1  1/2" long.  I then turned each end of the pipe to a diameter of .350" for 1/4".



The pipe blank ready to receive the silver bands.



The swaging tool I use to draw the silver bands made from 21 gauge sheet stock.  It consists of a shouldered punch and a swag block.


A picture of the swaging process.  After I anneal the silver I rough shape it into a cylinder as best I can.  I then drive it through the swage closing the gap and making a perfectly round tube.  You can see the seam closing up as I push the tube through the swag.



Here is the silver tube back in my lathe so I can square up the ends of the cylinder prior to cutting off 1/4" lengths for attaching to the pipes.



A picture of the pipes and silver bands.


This photo shows the silver bands soldered on the pipes with the ends trimmed up and the diameters turned to match the O.D. of the pipe blanks.


The finished pipes.




Another view of the finished pipes. 


« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 03:52:38 AM by David Rase »

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 02:11:11 AM »
very nicely done sir

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 02:27:31 AM »
You did an outstanding job, but it seems like a lot of trouble.  Your fabrication and machining must be perfect at each step.  Do you think it might work to make up a blank with three strips of metal silver soldered together?

Offline smallpatch

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2016, 04:26:03 AM »
David,  you are bad a$$!!!!!
In His grip,

Dane

Offline oldtravler61

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2016, 04:48:00 AM »
David another well done tutorial. Thanks for showing.

Offline Ed Wenger

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2016, 05:41:09 AM »
Nice!


       Ed
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Offline David Rase

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2016, 06:24:14 AM »
You did an outstanding job, but it seems like a lot of trouble.  Your fabrication and machining must be perfect at each step.  Do you think it might work to make up a blank with three strips of metal silver soldered together?
Mark,
If you ever want a simple task over engineered, I'm your guy!  On second thought, maybe I should retitle this thread "over engineered ram rod pipes" ;D 
David
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 06:27:16 AM by David Rase »

Offline flinchrocket

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2016, 07:03:51 AM »
Those look really nice. Any pictures of forming the entry pipe?

Offline Rolf

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2016, 11:08:37 AM »
Beautiful pipes!! Hope Acer will place this in the tutorial section, so it does not get lost.

Best regards
Rolf

Offline Old Ford2

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2016, 01:38:32 PM »
Really nice work!
Those pipes should dress up a fine rifle very well.
This was a class tutorial.
Fred
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Let the Lord pick the good from the bad!

Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2016, 03:47:41 PM »
 Beautiful work David/ Is the thumb nail filed in? Ya want it right, do it right, well done.

    Tim C,

Offline FALout

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2016, 04:14:29 PM »
Those look great, will really set this rifle on another level for appearance.
Bob

Offline staggerwing

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2016, 05:23:17 PM »
Thank you for taking the time to post the pictures and explanation of your work.  Impressive and inspiring!

thimble rig

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2016, 05:36:34 PM »
Awesome work on the thimbles.That is a nice touch.

Offline elkhorne

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2016, 05:43:39 PM »
David,
Very nice pipe! I have never seen such interesting and highly artistic work on a part that most never give any special attention to. How did you get your flats so nice on the pipes? I am still having issues with getting my flats consistently straight looking and would welcome any new ideas for improving them. Thank you for sharing your new ideas with us. You can always teach an old dog a new trick!

Offline Mark Elliott

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2016, 07:02:27 PM »
You did an outstanding job, but it seems like a lot of trouble.  Your fabrication and machining must be perfect at each step.  Do you think it might work to make up a blank with three strips of metal silver soldered together?
Mark,
If you ever want a simple task over engineered, I'm your guy!  On second thought, maybe I should retitle this thread "over engineered ram rod pipes" ;D 
David

I was genuinely asking a question.   I wasn't criticizing your approach; at least, not much.   ;)

Offline David Rase

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2016, 07:14:57 PM »
You did an outstanding job, but it seems like a lot of trouble.  Your fabrication and machining must be perfect at each step.  Do you think it might work to make up a blank with three strips of metal silver soldered together?
Mark,
If you ever want a simple task over engineered, I'm your guy!  On second thought, maybe I should retitle this thread "over engineered ram rod pipes" ;D 
David

I was genuinely asking a question.   I wasn't criticizing your approach; at least, not much.   ;)
If a person does not have access to a lathe, he could get the same results and be more workmanlike by filing a U-shaped recess on the end of each pipe vs. using a lathe.  Then he could bend U-shaped pieces of silver and solder them in place.  Less wasted silver.  Since I had the lathe I decided to use it.  I did not want to use a butt joint for fear of the silver bands breaking off sometime down the road.  That was the reasoning behind the recesses.  Bullet proof.  Plus, sometimes my silver soldering is not that great.
David

Offline M. E. Pering

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2016, 07:20:59 PM »
Good tutorial and beautiful pipes, David.  I am assuming you split the rear silver band of the entry thimble longitudinally to slip it over and solder it? 

Matt

Offline David Rase

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2016, 07:23:04 PM »
David,
How did you get your flats so nice on the pipes? I am still having issues with getting my flats consistently straight looking and would welcome any new ideas for improving them.
Sorry I cannot help you on the filing of the flats.  I file them mostly by eye.  I file the top flat first, checking to make sure it is perpendicular to the tab.  Next I file the side flats.  I check them for being parallel using my dial calipers.  Then I file in the oblique flats and make any width adjustments to the flats as necessary.  
One trick I do use is to draw black Sharpie lines around the blank to aid in seeing where I am filing.  That really helps when I need to adjust the position of a flat radially.
David    

Offline David Rase

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2016, 07:26:49 PM »
Good tutorial and beautiful pipes, David.  I am assuming you split the rear silver band of the entry thimble longitudinally to slip it over and solder it? 

Matt

Matt,
You are correct, the band is split.  I open it up just enough to slip it down the length of the pipe.  I use some small gauge black iron wire to cinch the bands in place to solder.  I wrap the wire around the silver band, twist it snug and solder.  Silver solder doe not adhere to the black iron wire so you can untwist it and pop it off.
David

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2016, 07:34:00 PM »
Those look really nice. Any pictures of forming the entry pipe?
&
Good tutorial and beautiful pipes, David.  I am assuming you split the rear silver band of the entry thimble longitudinally to slip it over and solder it? 

Matt
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The detailed assembly of that rear ram rod pipe is what I like to know also ;D.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Offline David Rase

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2016, 07:42:50 PM »
Those look really nice. Any pictures of forming the entry pipe?
&
Good tutorial and beautiful pipes, David.  I am assuming you split the rear silver band of the entry thimble longitudinally to slip it over and solder it? 

Matt
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The detailed assembly of that rear ram rod pipe is what I like to know also ;D.
You do have to bump up he thumbnail and have all of the major adjustments complete prior to cutting the back groove into the entry pipe or the metal will be too thin and the finial could break off during the hammering of the thumbnail.
David

Offline smart dog

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2016, 07:50:09 PM »
Great work Dave!!!

dave
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Offline Jay Close

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2016, 05:34:14 PM »
Those are really pretty ramrod pipes!

About three decades ago I had the chance to study a North Carolina flintlock rifle with that kind of silver accent. The way that old maker did his was to solder a U-shaped band on the ends of the pipes so there was only silver on what could be seen.  I also recall the silver being pretty flat and not as nicely rounded or beaded as yours.

But yours are classy!

Offline Curtis

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Re: Silver tipped entry pipes and thimbles
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2016, 08:50:09 PM »
Awesome tutorial Dave!  I will probably take more of a backwoods approach if I ever attempt any like that, but your instructions perfectly show what needs to be done - any adaptions are made easier that way.  I don't have a lathe.... yet.  Maybe someday!  Thanks for posting this.



Curtis
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Sometimes, late at night when I am alone in the inner sanctum of my workshop and no one else can see, I sand things using only my fingers for backing