Acraglass

[Tony Clark]

Seems like a lot of people use this. I'm wondering why? I don't understand...

[eddillon]

What don't you understand?

[Tony Clark]

What don't you understand?

Why do people use it when building long rifles? They talk about bedding barrels with it and I'm wondering why? What is the purpose for that? I've built , well.. quite a few guns dozens at least stocked from a blank and never had any
Acraglass. Is that good or bad? Is their a benefit to using it for bedding a barrel? Just seems to me their isn't any room for Acraglass or anything else for that matter in a properly bedded barrel. Especially now days when you can send your barrel and stock out and have it sent back to so perfectly bedded it is beyond belief.. Thanks to guys like David Rase.

Thanks, tc

[Mike Brooks]

I don't see much use for it in ML's. I used to use it when I was a beginner many years ago, but I later found if your gun is properly built it doesn't increase accuracy. I also found that if you did use it and it rained on your gun the bottom of your barrel would rust real bad.

[Bob Roller]

I don't see much use for it in ML's. I used to use it when I was a beginner many years ago, but I later found if your gun is properly built it doesn't increase accuracy. I also found that if you did use it and it rained on your gun the bottom of your barrel would rust real bad.

I've never considered any epoxys or other odd compounds in the few muzzle loaders I made.
Antique long range muzzle loaders are said to be found sometimes with what appears to be a
horse hair and glue concoction as a bedding for the barrel.Maybe someone can enlighten us on
that.On my only long range muzzle loader I did use paper thin walnut veneer and Elmer's carpenters
glue and it worked fine.The veneer came from a friend's wife who took a basket weaving class and had
some left over.

Bob Roller

[Boompa]

It isn't something I use much on a ML. I have epoxy bedded,(acraglass, marine tex, jb weld, micro bed),  many modern bolt guns. It dries to a reverse image of a rifle and is tough as well as waterproof.  When done correctly it mates a barreled action perfectly to the stock and this can enhance accuracy in that there is no shifting of the action when the gun is fired. I doubt that it would help the accuracy of a properly bedded ML very much if at all. It  seals the wood surface and minimizes the affect of moisture causing movement in a wood stock. It is also good as a glue for repairs.
    If I do use it I prefer to leave it clear, ( no dye), so the inletting can be seen under the very thin coat of epoxy.
     

[EC121]

The only place that might need a bit of bedding would be the breech to keep recoil from bending the pins and reduce the recoil impact to the barrel tang wood.  That only takes a little behind the lug of the breech plug to stop the rearward movement.  

[Acer Saccharum]

I don't use any on flintlocks.

[oldtravler61]

As a new builder. I think some of us use it (have not on the last three) to help strengthen that fragile fore end. Then realizing that the barrel is it's strength. A lot of us, do our own inletting of the barrel an rr hole.  It's how I will get better each time. When I have looked at the surviving rifles. The barrel channel is rounded at the bottom. They held up okay!

[WadePatton]

I would only consider using it for a repair that couldn't be more traditionally fixed otherwise, which includes: screwed, glued, tacked, patched, and/or wrapped.  Or even replacing/fitting/finishing new wood.

Yeah, that's not going to leave a lot of opportunities for epoxy.  

[rich pierce]

Some builders are used to using it and reading it makes a big difference in those modern rifles we don't talk about here. So they figure the same applies to long rifles I guess. Some books and magazine articles used to recommend it. I did it once on my first long rifle then quit using it because it was a lot of work, did not seem to provide an advantage, costs money, and is non traditional. But to each his own. Nothing against those who do and find it useful. 

[jerrywh]

 I have never used it on a muzzle loader. I have used regular epoxy a couple of times but just in the breech area. I just wanted to make sure the tang didn't come back and split the stock. My barrels have been inlaid the same way Race does. I built a machine to do it. A machine will not cut a perfect cavity for the breech. It has to be finished by hand.

[One Eye]

The only place that might need a bit of bedding would be the breech to keep recoil from bending the pins and reduce the recoil impact to the barrel tang wood.  That only takes a little behind the lug of the breech plug to stop the rearward movement.  

The gent who built my .58 Hawken full stock did exactly that.
It is not visible with the gun assembled.
One Eye

[flinchrocket]

On a couple of guns that I built, for some reason the barrel moved forward a small amount after I
installed the tang bolt. I put some bedding behind the barrel,breech and a few inches in the bottom so
everything would be solid when the tang bolt was tightened up. I have not figured out why this happens
because I clamped the barrel in the stock to drill the tang holes. I now leave the rear barrel pin as first drilled until I get the tang bolt in and then slot the barrel lug,haven't had any problems with that method,
but l don't know what the difference is between clamping and using the barrel pin to hold the barrel in place.

[EC121]

If the tang is a tight inlet, clamping the barrel might put pressure on the radius at the breechplug/tang junction and cam the barrel forward.  Pinning doesn't put any downward pressure on  the barrel.

[bama]

Why I sometimes use a bedding compond.

I know from a tradional standpoint it is not to be used but from a working standpoint it can be very beneficial. If I build a rifle for a target shooter I bed the breech and about 8" of the barrel in front of the breech. Does this help accuracy, don't know but probably. What it does do is strengthen the most vulnerable area of a long rifle. I do not bed to make up for a losey inletting job nothing can really help a bad job. But how many of us have seen antique rifles and some contemporary rifle that have been broken through the lock and wrist area.

If I know that the rifle is going to be shot by a shooter that is going to run several hundred rounds through the rifle year in and year out I will ask if they want me to bed the breech area which includes about 8" of barrel as mentioned. It is not visible if done correctly from the outside and is strengthening a weak area of the stock. I have no problem in doing this.

If somebody ask for a traditional rifle no bedding compond is used. End of story.

Let me ask a question how many of you guys that build these skinny little thin wristed rifles on a slender big bore barrel how will the wrist and lock area hold up over the next two hundred years. For that matter how do you think they are going to hold up over the next 20 years.

I have a rifle that I bought my wife to target shoot matches with. It was built by a local builder that has a good reputation. It is a 36 cal that is built on a piece of birdseye maple, very slender wrist and nice thin lock mortice panels the rifle is around 20 years old. She has shot probably 500 to 600 rounds a year out of this rifle over the last the last 6 years. I noticed as I was cleaning it after the last match that the lower lock panel had developed a crack that goes all the way through to the trigger mortice. This is on a 36 cal rifle. Now did the guy do a bad job or did this rifle just surcomb to the design flaw that is common to our beloved longrifles. Now subject a 50 or 54 cal rifle on a slender barrel and skinny profile to this same type of use and see how long it last.

Just saying that bedding componds have their place and a time to use them. It is not a fix all for bad work

[rich pierce]

Jim, are you saying those cracks originate in the barrel channel and bedding 8" of barrel will probably prevent them from happening?  Want to understand. 

[Mike Brooks]

I could suggest the benefits of bedding, but I'd have to drift off into verboten areas..... I do know that a bedded breech secretion CAN improve accuracy, but you also need the major part of the barrel free floated. Sort of dificult with ML's.
Proper building techniques with ML's pert near eliminates the need for bedding. Just my opinion of course.

[Boompa]

   There's really no other way that I know of to build a ML but the fact that we pin the barrel in three or more places along it's length violates the general principles for building an accurate rifle. Rifles that shoot tiny groups do so in part because the barrel vibrates uniformly at each shot fired.
       I'm not arguing, but trying to understand the idea that bedding 8" of the barrel will make the ML more accurate.     Do you pin the barrel as is normally done in the center and near the muzzle?
   

[M. E. Pering]

I can understand modern builders using this, but I never will on a ML.  I don't see any point.  The barrel supports the stock.  Maybe someone is trying to prevent squeekes and such, but I would rather have an arm that is more historically correct.  Nothing against you guys that do it, but it doesn't seem necessary or helpful.

Matt

[frogwalking]

I once used it to bed the barrel lug on a Eyetalian  Enfield .58.  It had a nice little kick, and the rear of the barrel didn't fit the stock well at all. 

[jerrywh]

 I really don't care what is traditional.  The gun makers in 1790 used the best things and materials at their disposal and I do the same thing. In perspective Melchior Fortney wasn't traditional either and you could say the same for almost any gun maker in any era. The world progresses. If this weren't true we would still be using matchlocks. I have seen filler in original guns that was composed of wood sawdust and hide glue or eggs.

[WadePatton]

I really don't care what is traditional.  The gun makers in 1790 used the best things and materials at their disposal and I do the same thing. In perspective Melchior Fortney wasn't traditional either and you could say the same for almost any gun maker in any era. The world progresses. If this weren't true we would still be using matchlocks. I have seen filler in original guns that was composed of wood sawdust and hide glue or eggs.

Yes of course, but here at ALR we have chosen to focus on the methods and materials that were used in a particular timeframe to producer specific products.  Until the mission statement changes, this whole conversation is treading "thin ice" as I see it.  

I don't think modern compounds are out of the question for guns that are shooters and may need it for a "quickie" repair, but that the ALR open forums isn't the best place to discuss the stuff.  

Methinks there is a good bit of difference in utilizing power tools here and there to accomplish shaping/inletting/finishing etc. than using components/compounds that are not PC that become integral with the finished works.

There again, no one really fusses about SS vent liners, hideous as they may be.  

[Jim Kibler]

Here's how I see it...  There's no real purpose for epoxy in building longrifles.  Perhaps the only exception is filling small wood defects.  This is especially true for materials such as burl.  I know some feel a breech bedded helps durability and accuracy.  I don't think it is required.  Too often epoxy is used in an attempt to make up for sub-par work, even if it is in a place that doesn't show.

Jim

[Joe S.]

I think a newer builder should have a little slack cut if he found the need to use a little epoxy. I'd be pretty peeved if I found a bondo job on a custom I bought from a "experienced" builder.